Who decides if an idiom is a 成语 Chengyu？

[holger]

Hello,

i wondered if theres some kind of official authority that decides which locutions or tetragrams are counted as Chengyus and which not.

Afaik Chengyus are usually of ancient origin but there don't seem to be clear rules to distinguish them from other idioms. Sure it's obvious that something like 要吃再买 wont be taken into the canon of chinese sayings. Another criterion often cited is that Chengyus usually contain classical chinese and/or that the meaning cannot directly be derived from the words without knowing the background story like in 守株待兔

any ideas?

[gato]

I don't think you are going to get a satisfying answer on your question here. Dictionary makers are probably in the best position to know how chengyu's are formed and passed down. I doubt the average person knows...

The sources of chengyu's, on the other hand, are relatively clear. Somebody did an analysis of the origin of chengyu's in a standard chengyu dictionary and found that

- 68% of the 4600 or so chengyus listed were from the Han dynasty or earlier (up to 220),

- 15% from the Wei and Jin dynasties,

- 9% from the Jin and Tang dynasties (581 - 907)

- 6% from the Song dynasty (960 - 1279), and

- 2% from the Yuan, Ming and Qing dynasties (1271 - 1912).

http://vbi.scrtvu.net/vbi74/jxfd/htm/36.htm

传统成语大多数在上古至秦汉时期就已经形成了。肖竹声统计了《汉语成语词典》上海教育出版社1978年中注明来源的4600条四言成语结果是源于上古至秦汉的3128条占68源于魏晋南北朝的690条占15源于隋唐的414条占9源于宋朝的276条占6源于元明清的92条占2。

[roddy]

Yeah, if you look around for definitions, the historical aspect of it is key. Ie:

来源：①历史故事。②寓言故事。③神话或其他传说。④古典文学作品。

Although I'd love to see some new ones made up, perhaps based around new fables.

[sanbit]

I would say almost all the idioms are from a long time ago, there are no new 成語 idioms that are made now. There might be new cool phrases, but not actual idioms. Also although many idioms are hard to understand without studying them, many can be understood as soon as you see it if you have basic chinese knowledge, for example:

一石二鸟

口是心非

天下无敌