What are you reading?

[Insectosaurus]

Any suggestions when it comes to Chinese murder mystery authors, preferably urban? Something that isn't highbrow, but rather something for the train commute.

[Lu]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:14 PM, Insectosaurus said:

Any suggestions when it comes to Chinese murder mystery authors, preferably urban?

《1367》 by 陈浩基. Hong Kong detective novel. Six stories over the course of the police career of super detective Kwan Chun-dok. The six stories are told in reverse chronoligical order, so you follow the detective's career backwards, and also the changes in Hong Kong itself. The solving of the mysteries is done Sherlock Holmes-style, with all kinds of small clues that add up.

 

On 11/13/2021 at 9:09 PM, phills said:

I'm going to try to figure it out and not read the Book of the Whenever thread yet until I'm done.

The spoilers in that thread are all behind spoiler tags, so you can read it safely. Nice that you're joining!

[Publius]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:09 PM, pinion said:

(I occasionally feel obligated in offline life to pretend that I like Good Literature, but the truth is that I got into Chinese to read pulpy webnovels, so...here we are ?)

Hahaha, 同道啊!  I periodically binge read pulpy webnovels too.  Last batch includes 史上第一混乱、大王饶命、异常生物见闻录、黎明之剑、我家徒弟又挂了、从前有座灵剑山、铁掌无敌王小军、左道倾天、宇宙的边缘世界、我修的可能是假仙、万古最强宗、惊悚乐园、我的徒弟都是大反派、万界圆梦师… so mostly 搞笑/仙侠/科幻.  What type do you like? ?

[Publius]

I finished 麦家's 人生海海 last week. @Woodford how are you doing? Hope you're not struggling in the sea of cultural revolution phraseology. I think the book is fine. Good literature. The author managed to build a bunch of bizarre anecdotes into something profound. And it's gripping, keeps you wanting to know what's next. What I don't like is the use of regionalism. Even the book title is a Hokkien 闽南话 expression. It kind of creates distance between the reader and the characters. For example, the word 安耽 appears repeatedly. I know both characters, but have never seen or heard the combination before in my life. Even though I can understand it perfectly from context (btw, that's why in my assessment of a book's difficulty using imron's CTA, I give more weight to number of unique characters than number of unique words), it makes it harder for me to identify with these strangely speaking strangers.

 

I've also finished 余华's 活着 and 许三观卖血记. From now on, if anyone needs recommendation for their first Chinese novel, 许三观卖血记 will be my answer. Its humor makes it less of a tear jerker. And there's lots of repetition, both in sentence structure and vocabulary - a technique commonly found in fables. I think it's good for beginning readers.

 

I'm now reading 古文观止 (中华书局 edition) to brush up my 文言文. Very nice vertical typesetting. Already feel sager just by looking at it. Here's a picture:

[Woodford]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:31 AM, Publius said:

I finished 麦家's 人生海海 last week. @Woodford how are you doing? Hope you're not struggling in the sea of cultural revolution phraseology. I think the book is fine. Good literature. The author managed to build a bunch of bizarre anecdotes into something profound. And it's gripping, keeps you wanting to know what's next.

 

I'm actually enjoying it a lot! The first 50-60 pages were filled with words I needed to find in a dictionary, but now I'm 120 pages in, and the difficulty level has dropped to almost zero. It's a really smooth and easy read. The characters are interesting, and it has an engaging story line. Some of the dialogue is absolutely ridiculous, especially when people are spreading rumors about 上校 and his...male organ. It seems that Mai Jia intentionally included some dark humor into his book. As if he wants the reader to see how silly some of the villagers are.

 

This is actually the fifth book I've read about the history of the Cultural Revolution, the Red Guards, the struggle sessions, etc. It wasn't intentional--it just happens, coincidentally, that many of the books I've read have mentioned it. So fortunately, I've been able to understand that part of the book pretty well!

 

What really surprises me is when I encounter vocabulary that seems really rare and obscure, and I think, "If it's taken me this long to see this particular word for the first time ever, then how important can it be? It probably isn't even worth memorizing." Then I see it again in the very next book I read, or even the very same day in a completely unrelated Chinese YouTube video! It's satisfying to read Mai Jia's book and recognize a lot of words that would have given me trouble just a few months ago, or to encounter cultural references or idioms that I now understand, because I learned them along the way. I feel like I've made real progress.

 

Ultimately, I can't really recommend Mai Jia's books for those who are just starting to read their first few books. He's not the most difficult author, but he's harder than many. When I read "Decoded" as my 5th book, it was really miserable. It makes me wonder--if the roles were reversed, and "Decoded" was my 17th book and "A Wavy Life" was my 5th, I wonder if I'd dislike "A Wavy Life" and like "Decoded." I may never know!

[imron]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:50 AM, Woodford said:

I may never know

You could try re-reading it. You may pick up on many things you missed out the first time. 

[Tomsima]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:31 PM, Publius said:

Already feel sager just by looking at it

 

Haha I have this on my bookshelf, exactly the same! Although I only made it halfway through the 上 volume before the feeling wore off and I quietly 'rolled' back to my modern literature safe space.

[phills]

I just finished 异兽志.  It's a fun book, although it's harder than it first seems.  On the plus side, it has more twists per page than any other book I've read.  The twists keep you persevering through, and forum thread is really helpful.

 

I was thinking of how to characterize the novel's style, and I would say it's a combo of a:

 

1. Noir Detective Novel (hard drinking/chain smoking, cynical corrupt world), but swap the detective for an author,

2. Phillip Dick sci-fi story (identity confusion, world not what it seems),

3. Magic from the Witcher series (ironic curses / beasts that ruin families' lives -- particularly the Witcher books start with a bunch of macabre Fairy Tales),

 

set in a modernish setting,  with Chinese characteristics.  Since I like Phillip Dick, noir detective settings and the Witcher series, it was right up my alley.

 

Hopefully it improved my Chinese abilities too.  I'm going to see if it did, by moving on to reading  雪山飞狐 by 金庸 next.

[Publius]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:00 PM, phills said:

Noir Detective Novel

I have to admit I don't quite get the noir concept. Blade Runner is described as "future noir" and Veronica Mars "teen noir". So what exactly is "noir"?

[phills]

On 11/28/2021 at 11:10 PM, Publius said:

I have to admit I don't quite get the noir concept. Blade Runner is described as "future noir" and Veronica Mars "teen noir". So what exactly is "noir"?

 

Blade Runner is a Phillip Dick story, and his stories have a very Noirish feel.  But to me the most proto-typical Noir Detective is Sam Spade, detective in the Maltese Falcon by Daniel Hammett.  Those types of stories were popular in the US in the first half of the 20th century.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Spade

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noir_fiction

 

Wikipedia says: "In this subgenre, right and wrong are not clearly defined, while the protagonists are seriously and often tragically flawed."  Also, "generally featuring a disturbing mixture of sex and violence," and "a typical protagonist of noir fiction is forced to deal with a corrupt legal, political or other system, through which the protagonist is either victimized and/or has to victimize others, leading to a lose-lose situation."

 

But I think of it as the noir detective smokes a lot, is cynical about the corrupt world, has money troubles, finds it hard to disentangle the victim and the victimizer in his cases, and gets in trouble because of his soft spot for dangerous dames; often is played by Humphrey Bogart. 

 

The 海豚酒吧 with the taciturn bartender, the constant smoking & drinking, the old newspaper clippings, the author trying to go her own way but also running away from her emotions, the money troubles, the corrupt society with the rich & famous victimizing others, the casual murders, and dangerous liaisons with the 兽 (where it's often unclear who's the abuser and who's being abused) are all very Noir-ish elements.

[黄有光]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:00 PM, phills said:

I just finished 异兽志.  It's a fun book, although it's harder than it first seems.  On the plus side, it has more twists per page than any other book I've read.  The twists keep you persevering through, and forum thread is really helpful.

OMG! This is on my reading list!!! I probably get around to it this upcoming year, but definitely 2023. I can't wait.

[黄有光]

After almost a whole year of studiously working my way through children's books, I finally have enough vocabulary to start studying my way through some young adult literature. FINALLY. I'm so sick of children's books, lol. My first adult book is 饥饿游戏, and it has 2,500 unknown words. Should be able to finish it within about a month!

[Publius]

I'm taking a break from 古文观止. Too many arcane characters combined with high dosage of Confucianism is hurting my brain. Currently I'm reading a novel 不赦 by 尚可, previously published in HK under the title 绝伦暴徒. The drama is set in a fictional small city in the mountainous northeast China with a weird name 绝伦谛 and a nearby hunting reserve for the powers that be. The mayor is found mysteriously murdered in his luxurious villa with his head missing and the other head blown to pieces. But it's not a whodunnit. That question becomes moot when starting from chapter two the story unfolds almost exclusively around a hunter who likes to take the law into his own hands. The storyline is engrossing enough but the language is too 文艺腔/translationese-y to my taste. For instance, 但遇犁夫还是无法阻止上一代人的普遍不幸找到了他的母亲。在他二十三岁那年的冬天，母亲双目失明了… or “你要解决的事儿并不小，因为你弟弟是不会来秘密工厂上班的，”他把脑袋搁到沙发靠背上说，“这太像一个交易了，而我凭什么要跟你做交易？你再给我个理由。”“我会感激你。”遇犁夫说。 - who on god's green earth talk like that? Many forum members here can write more natural-sounding Chinese than this sorry excuse of an author. I get it that he's probably fishing for a movie adaptation, but I don't see how it's gonna happen. Riot, tanks, helicopters - need I say more?

EDIT: I forgot to mention a data point. I timed myself reading the first chapter. Some performance anxiety initially but it subsided quickly. I read roughly 1 page (31x28) per minute, about 750 cpm excluding punctuations and white spaces.

[RedInkstone]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:14 PM, Insectosaurus said:

Any suggestions when it comes to Chinese murder mystery authors, preferably urban? Something that isn't highbrow, but rather something for the train commute.

You might want to check out the 迷雾剧场 (link to a list on Wikipedia) by 爱奇艺。It’s a category of mystery dramas mostly adapted from popular (web) novels. The time settings are also very varied: some play nowadays, some in the 00s, 90s, 20s and even some late Qing ones. 

I guess you will find at least one interesting read there  

[黄有光]

I just finished reading the first chapter of 饥饿游戏. The only other time I read this book was in French, and my French was (and still is, lol) shit, so there was a lot I didn't understand at the time. It was nice to have the clarity of knowing virtually every single word in the chapter.

 

The first chapter of 饥饿游戏 was definitely a step up in terms of difficulty. Given that all of my previous books have been children's novels, I'm suddenly being confronted with longer, more complicated sentences. The style of writing is also less straightforward, more showing and less telling -- although I'd be hard pressed to put my finger on exactly what contributes to this perceived difference in quality. When I first started reading the chapter, the difference in difficulty did throw me for a little bit of a loop, but I found that I was able to adjust quite quickly, and by the end of the chapter it wasn't a problem for me anymore.

 

Overall, the translation so far reads very smoothly. However, the translator made two decisions that I'm not sure I agree with, and I'm wondering if there is a reason behind them that I'm not aware of?

 

Firstly, for those who don't know, 饥饿游戏 depicts a fictional country with 12 provinces ("districts"), plus The Capitol.  But instead of translating "The Capitol" as 国都 or something similar, the translator chose to say 凯匹特 instead.

 

A similar decision was made with some wordplay. The main character of the novel is named Katniss, and her friend calls her by the playful nickname "Catnip". The nickname is explained as originating from him mishearing her introduction. To me it seems like it would make the most sense to give Katniss a new name in Chinese, and then play off of that for a new nickname. But here again the translator opts instead for a direct transliteration, thereby losing the nuanced connection between the two names (although they do supplement with a translator's note to the audience). 

 

Does anyone know why these decisions might have been made?

[rickardg]

I've just finished the first part of 平凡的世界 which I quite like. It's an interesting window into a life quite different from mine but perhaps not so different from that of my parents and grandparents.

 

It wasn't too hard to understand, but I think I'll take a break from it before I go on, does anyone have a recommendation for something easy, light and contemporary?

[phills]

@rickardgDepends on what you like, but 圈子圈套 is relatively easy, and takes place in a modern setting.  Particularly if you have worked in tech or in sales, it'll be very relatable.

 

Anything by 余华 is also relatively easy and is in modern (but not business) setting.  But tends to weepy, at least the books I've read -- 活着 & 兄弟。

[Publius]

On 12/12/2021 at 4:30 AM, rickardg said:

something easy, light and contemporary

How about web novel? 铁掌无敌王小军 is easy, light, contemporary, and fun. (As a native speaker I'm not a good judge of the "easy" part, though.)

[Publius]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:32 AM, phills said:

Anything by 余华 is also relatively easy and is in modern (but not business) setting.  But tends to weepy, at least the books I've read -- 活着 & 兄弟。

许三观卖血记 is better. Less weepy, and uses repetition to achieve a humorous effect.

[rickardg]

平凡的世界

On 12/11/2021 at 11:36 PM, Publius said:

How about web novel? 铁掌无敌王小军

 

On 12/11/2021 at 11:41 PM, Publius said:

许三观卖血记 is better.

 

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll look into web novels, I'm such a dinosaur I don't even know what it is... ?

I've actually just started on 许三观卖血记, we'll see how it goes, I've read 活着 several years ago...