What are you reading?

[Woodford]

Just finished Jiang Rong's "Wolf Totem." After experimenting with more short form content for a few weeks (i.e., just social media and news articles), I started to get bored with it. Ironically, one of the articles on Zhihu I read was on the importance of reading more long form content (especially books) to engage one's mind. So I decided to go back and finish Wolf Totem.

 

I would describe the book as "good, but not without flaws." It's extremely long, and it could probably afford to be at least 1/3 shorter than it actually is. My complaint is similar to the one that some have had about the first book in Liu Cixin's "Three Body Problem" trilogy. Sometimes the plot slows down way too much and gets replaced by long academic lectures. Somebody else on here (I can't remember who) said that this book falls apart in the middle, because the author spends way too much time talking about how awesome wolves are, and how they're the cause of everything good in China and the world. And...yes. That description is 100% accurate. The author's opinion is that wolves have trained the Mongolians to have a strong, freedom-loving spirit and the nomadic lifestyle that upholds it. The Han, on the other hand, settled down into a sedentary farming lifestyle and lack the resilience of the Mongolians. They don't understand the delicate balance between wolves and the rest of wildlife, so their presence destroys the Inner Mongolian wilderness and leaves it as a dead waste. And, really, every successful society in the history of the world likely learned its primitive skills from wolves. Even the Americans and other Westerners have a more nomadic, wolf-like lifestyle that has helped them to rise to power. Way, way too much time is spent on that topic, and I really don't buy the thesis. I think it's odd. There's a really long epilogue after the end of the story that more thoroughly explains the author's political ideas, but I just couldn't endure further. I stopped there.

 

The story itself is actually quite good. It's about a "sent-down youth," named Chen Zhen, who is working in the Inner Mongolian plains to help the shepherds. He wants to understand the local wolves, so he gets a crazy idea take a wolf pup and raise it in captivity. Along the way, he learns about the ways of the culture, especially from "Old Man Bilgee," his mentor. The book doesn't really have any true villains, but there is a constant feeling of conflict with the migrant Han workers who want to irresponsibly use the land for its resources and kill off all the wolves (because the wolves kill livestock, mainly). The Mongolians respect the wolves and wish to maintain the delicate balance of nature. Especially in the first half of the book, the action is relentless, adventurous, and violent. Even when the book started to slow down, I was still curious as to what would happen to the wolf pup being raised in captivity (which really forms the core of the story), so I kept reading.

The difficulty of the book (the Chinese edition, I mean) is probably a little elevated, but not terrible. A lot of words relating to animal husbandry and nomadic life. I would cautiously recommend it to anyone who is a diehard fan of adventure/wilderness novels in the vein of Jack London (who, actually, inspired the author).

[Woodford]

The reading has continued at a pretty consistent pace.

First, I've read 中国哲学简史 by 冯友兰. Really fascinating material written at a layperson's level. The book covers ancient schools of thought, like the Confucianists, the Daoists, the Legalists, the Mohists, etc. It reminds me of the days I read Western philosophy, like Plato's Republic. The parallels are strong, and Eastern philosophers were asking many of the same questions that Western ones were, from slightly different angles. The one lamentable thing is that the author quotes a lot of classical source material, which was extremely difficult for me to understand. It didn't totally destroy the experience for me, but it probably would have been better to get a bilingual edition of the book, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Chinese-Philosophy/dp/7513561281. The book motivated me to learn some Classical Chinese, which I might do later in the year. I'll never be comfortable reading it, but it would be great to grasp the basic vocabulary/grammar conventions. The classical/semi-classical style shows up in so many modern works of fiction. So much 之, so much 也, so many single-character words instead of compound words.

Next, I broke one of my own rules (don't read English works translated into Chinese), and I read the illustrated edition of 时间简史, by Stephen Hawking. In terms of grammar and vocabulary, a very easy read. In terms of the scientific concepts....not so simple. Really challenging.

Currently, I'm about to finish a small, recently-published novel called 秋园, by 杨本芬. It's touted as the female version of Yu Hua's "To Live," and it has rave reviews on the internet. I think it's definitely more literary/difficult to read than "To Live," and I found that Yu Hua's book was more emotionally impactful. Perhaps "To Live" has better character development--I'm not sure. The author is an amateur writer who got started when she was about 60 years old, if I remember correctly. It fits pretty well within the genre--it talks about the struggles of rural Chinese life through political upheaval, poverty, and starvation. It's interesting enough. I'd say I like it, and the author's use of words can be really striking and memorable. It can get extremely gruesome and graphic in some places (more so than any other books I've read). The author doesn't hide the ugliness and brutality of life in that time and place. 

Meanwhile, I am slowly working my way through Taiwanese magazine/news articles online, so I can learn traditional characters. Not too hard. Just hard enough to be awkward. I think I'll have a decent (not perfect) grasp on reading traditional characters in a month or so.

[PerpetualChange]

Despite much threatening to quit this language, I've managed to not totally do it. 

I'm about 50% of the way through 草房子 by 曹文轩. I'm enjoying the story about growing up in rural China from the different perspectives of the people who live in the town. It's also right at my level, in terms of reading. I finger over words on my Kindle about once per page, but find I can get pretty much the entire plot even without lookups. At this rate, I'll probably just keep plugging away at 曹文轩 novels until I get bored of them - not like I'll be done with this one any time soon. 

[Lu]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:55 PM, Woodford said:

It can get extremely gruesome and graphic in some places (more so than any other books I've read). The author doesn't hide the ugliness and brutality of life in that time and place. 

Interesting that a female author does that too. The violence and grue are a pretty constant feature in the works of Mo Yan Yu Hua Su Tong and that generation, much less in the work of later authors. I guess I don't know much work by female authors of that generation.

[PerpetualChange]

On 1/13/2023 at 3:55 PM, Woodford said:

It didn't totally destroy the experience for me, but it probably would have been better to get a bilingual edition of the book, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Chinese-Philosophy/dp/7513561281.

 

I went ahead and purchased this edition of the book. 

 

Looks really interesting, and something that I am also deeply interesting. Should be "review" for me because I've read extensively about some of this in my native English, which hopefully will translate to me feeling a bit less lost. 

[phills]

I just started reading 乡土中国, having heard about it from a recent Ezra Klein NYT podcast.  It's supposed to be a well known book written by a Chinese sociologist explaining the rural (?) origins of Chinese culture.

 

I'm about a third of the way through it.  It's not that long, only about 60k words, and I'm happy that I've mostly kept an acceptable level of language fluency despite laxness in my reading routine.  Although now I'm hitting a section talking about Chinese philosophy (孔子, 杨朱, 杨朱, christianity) vs. selfishness that requires some slowing down, and googling.

[Glyn]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:48 PM, PerpetualChange said:

Despite much threatening to quit this language, I've managed to not totally do it. 

Just keep at it. In Welsh, we would say "Dyfal donc a dyrr y garreg." ("It's steady tapping that breaks the stone.")

Don't give up.

[sanchuan]

On 2/1/2023 at 9:25 PM, Glyn said:

"Dyfal donc a dyrr y garreg."

So that's 水滴石穿 in Cymric! Nice

[Aile]

I might start posting here again to keep motivation up ☺️

 

Currently on chapter 8 of 三体 and feel like my reading has finally turned a corner - I'm able to get engaged with and visualise the story, and there are even points where I find it hard to put the book down! My baseline aim is to encounter 35 new words/phrases a day to save to a Pleco folder - and I've been keeping up with this pretty consistently in the past month - but two days this week I read twice as much as planned. It is the perfect level for me at the moment and so well structured to keep up interest!

 

Also feel like I've made progress with the most common 成语 I see when reading, quite a few have actually entered my active vocabulary (after having a vague passive grasp) and I'm having an easier and easier time using them in my Chinese classes. It feels great to have kept up with this 'chore' to the point where it isn't really a chore any more - reminds me that the payoff does actually exist in the long run...

 

My long-term goal is the HSK9 exam after I graduate from my undergrad, I think I'm going to keep measuring reading in terms of # new words (rather than hours/books) to ensure I get all the challenge and scope that I need beforehand. I was in one of those awful 'diminishing returns' plateaus before this, so feeling very happy right now!

 

 

[imron]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:35 PM, Aile said:

My baseline aim is to encounter 35 new words/phrases a day to save to a Pleco folder - and I've been keeping up with this pretty consistently in the past month

The one thing I’d caution on is that 35 words a day is probably not a sustainable rate to put in Pleco.  
 

Doing it for a month or two is likely fine but eventually the reviews will start piling up. 

 

I’d consider reducing the number of new words you store - maybe even by half.

 

You can still look them up, just don’t add them to Pleco for revision.

 

Don’t worry about missing out or forgetting ‘important’ words. By definition, if a word is important it will show up again and you can add it then. 

[Woodford]

One of my biggest "war stories" from learning Chinese comes from my experience of reading 三体 as my third Chinese novel. Some days, I added 60+ words to my SRS deck, and my daily review ballooned to maybe around 250 words a day, at one time peaking at a nightmarishly high 350 words.

 

The bright side, however, is that in the 30 or so books I've read since then, I've never again had such an intense experience, and the second and third books of the same trilogy become much easier to someone who's read the first book. 

 

[Aile]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:47 PM, imron said:

The one thing I’d caution on is that 35 words a day is probably not a sustainable rate to put in Pleco.  

I actually don't have a review routine linked to this at the moment, my Pleco thing is purely to motivate me to read a certain amount per day appropriate to both my level and the level of the book, to cross-check the HSK levels of new words (as I have folders for HSK 3.0) and to track how many times I've seen new vocab. When I'm more focused on the 7-9 exam I'll be able to see which words have already come up in my reading and which topics I might need to look for material on. ATM I only review flashcards for class tests, and make my own on Quizlet so I can include my own usage notes for each word.

 

It seems convoluted but works for me, unknown words would seem overwhelming otherwise but I've gamified it into a treasure hunt and get a dopamine rush wherever one comes up instead. 

[PerpetualChange]

Finished 草房子 by 曹文轩. What a lovely, and surprisingly mature, book. 

Vocab-wise, it was very comfortable for me. Slightly above my level, but not so much that I needed many word lookups. Often I found skipping a word or two didn't really interfere with my overall comprehension of the plot. Not sure my vocab grew much reading it, but it did solidify what was there. 

 

Once I finished it, I immediately downloaded the next 曹文轩 novel in the particular collection I'm working through - 青铜葵花. 

[matteo]

good effort @PerpetualChange ! can I ask you where you are downloading the novels from? wouldn't mind giving them a try. 

 

Reading something just slightly above your level is the perfect mix between learning and enjoying the experience, which is a good strategy to keep motivation in the long run. I'm always on the hunt for that kind of reading material at the "right level". 

 

I personally don't worry too much about learning as many words as possible, because I often find that my "passive" vocabulary is way larger than my "active" one. I think that reading easier stuff at my level helps me getting more and more familiar with those words and sentence structures that I'm already supposed to "know", to a point where I can actually use them in conversation.

 

[PerpetualChange]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:36 PM, matteo said:

good effort @PerpetualChange ! can I ask you where you are downloading the novels from? wouldn't mind giving them a try. 

Many of his novels are available on the Kindle store for under $5 each.

[Woodford]

Some time ago, I read Ma Boyong's book, 草原动物园. I liked it a lot, and I'd say it's one of my favorite works of contemporary Chinese fiction that I've read so far. So I was excited when I saw another Ma Boyong book climb up to the #1 spot of the "Top 200" chart in WeChat books, entitled 长安的荔枝。 It takes place in the time of the Tang Dynasty, and it's about a civil magistrate by the name of Li Shande, who finds himself charged with the awkward task of transporting fresh Lychee fruits over an impossibly long journey for the birthday of the emperor's chief concubine. He experiments with different methods of transporting and preserving the fruit, desperately trying to accomplish his mission (which, if failed, could result in the death penalty).

The read was not very pleasant or easy. I could understand most of it well enough, and it is indeed written in modern Mandarin prose, but it's filled with a lot of archaic words, many of which are not found in the basic Pleco dictionaries (I have the base dictionary and two expansions). I think there is in fact a dictionary of ancient Chinese I could have used, but it's too late for that! Sometimes, even when I can read a book with 98 or 99 percent comprehension, there's an annoying dynamic when the 1 or 2 percent of incomprehensible material happens at the most vital junctures of the story. To illustrate with a made-up example:

Zhao Li and Yuan Peng sit together in the wind-swept eastern plains, idly watching the shapeless clouds, struck by the rays of the evening sun, lazily float by. Zhao Li says, "Yuan Peng, I must admit to you--I couldn't have done it without you." Yuan Peng replies, "What are you talking about?" Zhao Li says, "You know, everything! We've been friends for twenty years, and you stayed with me through thick and thin! We found what we were looking for, we accomplished the mission, and now we're here!" Yuan Peng breathes a sigh of satisfaction. "Yes, I suppose you're right. I must admit, that hapoeihlkgasdfliawheog."

"What?" gasps Zhao Li. "hapoeihlkgasdfliawheog? Is that how you really feel? After all we've been through? hapoeihlkgasdfliawheog?"

"Well, all I said was hapoeihlkgasdfliawheog. Can't a man just say hapoeihlkgasdfliawheog once in a while?"

"If that's how you really feel, then our friendship is ruined! I have been betrayed!"

Zhao Li walks away in a huff, and the two friends never see each other again.

 

That's how I feel about a lot of literature, sometimes more often than I'd like to admit. I think, "What on earth just happened, and why?" Then I shrug my shoulders and move onward, suffering from a plot hole that may slowly compound itself as the book continues and I have more and more questions.
 

[PerpetualChange]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:40 AM, PerpetualChange said:

Once I finished it, I immediately downloaded the next 曹文轩 novel in the particular collection I'm working through - 青铜葵花. 

 

Not loving it, so far. I'm about 15 percent in. I've been stalled for about a week on a lengthy section describing 葵花 fields. I'll keep trudging and see if something clicks, but if not, no big deal. On to the next book. Perhaps time to return to Wuxia. 

[Woodford]

After spending a long time away from the series, I am currently about 2/3 of the way through Volume 2 of 平凡的世界, and I think I'm enjoying it significantly more than the first volume. I enjoy Lu Yao's intense realism, and how it avoids a lot of storytelling cliches; it's difficult to predict the outcome of any given plot line. Some characters are simply allowed to prosper and be happy, or else live normal lives. Other authors sometimes write too much tragedy and conflict into their stories. In a way, it is refreshing that this book lacks that tired sequence of "setup, conflict, climax, resolution." On the other hand, Lu Yao knows how to add in some crazy plot twists and keep things interesting. I read one chapter a day, which has been a perfect amount of reading. Each chapter forms its own sort of short story. My favorite chapter so far is Chapter 27 of Volume 2, which is about the relationship between an elderly man and his cat. It doesn't seem to fit in with the narrative flow of the rest of the book, but that's part of what makes it special. 

 

Somehow, I've been sucked into the unprecedented situation of reading 2 books at once. I've always used 白鹿原 (by Chen Zhongshi) as a sort of benchmark. I've had it in my library since the beginning, and when I first picked it up and looked at it, it felt really illegible and overwhelmingly difficult (the CTA software ranked it as my most difficult book, at 16 unfamiliar words per page, at the time). I put it at the very end of my planned reading list. I have read all the other books from that original list, and now I'm at this one. Over the months and years, I've glanced back at the book to see if I understand any more of it. Around a week ago, I just started reading from page 1, and I haven't stopped since. I'm maybe around 10% complete. I'd say it's in the same genre as 平凡的世界, but it's grittier, darker, more linear in its story line (it doesn't follow as many characters), and a couple notches more difficult to read.

To tell the truth, it's...not bad. I don't enjoy the story as much as Lu Yao's book, but it is in fact readable, and has the occasional obscure word pertaining to highly specialized farming tools, plants, medicines, etc. But I can read it. So it feels like a bit of a milestone.

There comes a stage in one's journey where the content itself becomes more of the focus (rather than learning the language). What do I really want to read? I'd love to consume more popular non-fiction books. Browsing the top Douban lists and Weixin Dushu lists, I've found a good stack of them. Like 植物的战斗, 芯片战争, 南京大屠杀, 置身事内：中国政府与经济发展，and, as suggested further up this thread, 乡土中国。It's just nice to learn about scientific, sociological, historical, economical, and political stuff, which is what I like to do in my English world. I've never been much of a fiction person, and my Chinese fiction reading has far outpaced my English fiction reading. 

[Johnny-5]

On 4/7/2023 at 8:56 PM, Woodford said:

I've never been much of a fiction person, and my Chinese fiction reading has far outpaced my English fiction reading. 

I used to read a lot when I was younger, but since leaving school I haven't as much. So it hasn't been harrd for my Chinese reading to outpace my English reading... but it has really outpaced it 

 

I've just started reading 天机 by 蔡骏 which is about a Chinese tour group in northern Thailand and a bunch of unfortunate events... There's an old lady who curses a bus of French tourists and that bus goes off a cliff and explodes and the Chinese tour group pick up an unconcious Frenchman and nurse him back to health on their own bus before being attacked by a monkey (of some type I didn't hit the dictionary to find out the exact kind). The monkey was pissed because they'd been tricked into eating the brains of the monkey's baby... and then they find a recently deserted city they'd never heard of and people start dying off one by one.

 

It's not the most intellectual of books, but it's a fun little thrill-ride and I'm surprised that no one has made it into a movie cuz it reads like that's what the author was going for.

[Woodford]

I finished Book 2 of 平凡的世界 around a week ago. It was an incredible read that really ratcheted up the drama towards the end. I'm definitely going to finish Book 3 at some point. It's relatively easy to read, the characters are very relatable (such that you find yourself caring about what happens to them), and there are so many plot lines running at once. That latter quality, though, sometimes gets in the way. I find it difficult to remember some of the secondary/tertiary characters, who likes whom, who hates whom, who did what to whom....The main characters were easy enough to follow, anyway.

I am currently about 1/3 of the way through 白鹿原. I have more mixed feelings about that one. Much like a Mo Yan novel, it's filled with obscure vocabulary, it's gritty, it's dark, and it has all sorts of odd bathroom/sexuality humor. Much like the Mo Yan novel I read earlier, it also has a couple of laugh-out-loud, absurd moments. It doesn't have as much charm as 平凡的世界. Many of the characters are pretty awful people. I think the book (which is very popular on Weixin) is beloved for its historical value, more than anything. The interesting thing is that it has a movie that was released in 2011, which seems to follow the plot of the book pretty closely.