How to analyze a LOOONG sentence?

[Sam Addington]

I am in the process of editing a translation. In it there is a very long sentence:

这种理念要求，标准化活动必须是由市场掌握主动权，遵行自愿性和协商一致的原则，在民间机构主导的基础上强化政府的参与，其表现出来的特点是一个“自下而上”的标准制定机制。

I have edited the original translation, but I am still far from satisfied:

This idea requires that standardization activities take their initiative from the marketplace. Compliance is voluntary and negotiation is performed to reach a consensus. Leadership by the private sector strengthens government participation, and the feature that emerges from this is a “bottom to top” standards formulation system.

I realize that you may require a bit of context in which to analyze this sentence. What I am interested in knowing, however, is what joins this very long sentence into one grammatical sentence. Would it even be worth trying to put it into one long English sentence? Is it good writing?

Any input is appreciated.

Edited March 11, 2009 at 02:19 PM by roddy
boring formatting issues

[Yue Chen]

What a complex sentence.

I think the main subject is 这种理念. meanwhile, it has another 2 sub-subjects: 标准化活动 and 特点.

Here is my translation, hope it give you some clue :）

This idea requires that standardisation activity has to be ruled by the market, to obey to the principle of voluntary and negotiation, to highlight the participation of the government under the leadership of the civil organizaion, whose feature shows a "bottom to top" system of making standard system.

Huh..I am not sure it is correct or understandable into English depends on my English level. However, it is one sentence in one sentence, and I am sure of is the structure should be right.

[akdn]

Ok, I'll throw in a few ideas: It looks like the person who translated this has done it word for word. Read through a few times, until you are satisfied that you know what the sentence is trying to say, then reformulate it in a way that sounds best to English ears. If this means dividing it into a few shorter sentences, then do so.

Following this theory, I had a go at the second half, and got this:

Government participation can be strengthened through the guidance of civil society organisations (or NGOs). A "bottom up" system results.

[Altair]

My guess as to the grammatical structure would yield the following translation:

"This idea requires (1) that standardization activities take their initiative from the marketplace, (2) that compliance be voluntary and consultation be performed to reach a consensus, and (3) that government participation be strengthened based on private sector leadership. The essential feature that emerges from this is a “bottom-up" standards formulation system.

[Sam Addington]

Thank you all for your excellent input. I wish I had your help yesterday when I submitted the document. It was submitted as it was in the original.

Each of you had valuable input. I like the way Yue Chen kept "voluntary" and "negotiate" very short like the original, although I'd suggest "volunatry compliance" and "negotiated consensus." I kind of agree with Altair that we might be better off with two sentences. Here is my final try.

This idea requires that standardisation activities be ruled by the market and obey the principle of voluntary compliance and negotiated consensus, with government participation strenghtened by leadership of the private sector, resulting in a "bottom to top" system of formulating standards.

[roddy]

standardisation activities

Standardization IS an activity. Imagine you're sending a telegram and paying per word, rather than writing and being paid per word.

This idea requires that standardisation activities be ruled by the market and obey the principle of voluntary compliance and negotiated consensus, with government participation strenghtened by leadership of the private sector, resulting in a "bottom to top" system of formulating standards.

or

So standardization needs to be "bottom-up": market-led, voluntary and negotiated; with government taking its cue from industry associations.

That's pretty ruthless and won't be to everyone's tastes. However, if (as I have) you add a semi-colon people tend to assume you know what you're talking about.

[Sam Addington]

Wow. You ARE ruthless! I like it!

However, you need to be careful not to put too much of your own interpretation into a translation. Specifically in this case, the sentence does not present a "need" but it simply "is." The current situation in the United States is being described. (Although as I re-read, I see that "the idea" requires something, which DOES mean that the idea "needs" something ... I may take this back!)

Also I would go with market-driven rather than market led. You would of course have to see the entire article to know why: market driven, privately led has been used as a type of slogan to contrast with the Chinese system which is govenment drive, agency led.

I also like "industry associations" rather then the "private sector" or "non-governmental organizations" but it seems a bit far from the orginal.

I have a question for you: if the original is clumsy and wordy is it our job as translators to polish it up? Or is it our duty since Chinese is generally more wordy than English (and is that even a legitimate claim?)

I suppose this discussion will have to be moved to the translators section of the form (if there is indeed such a section.)

Edited March 12, 2009 at 02:41 PM by Sam Addington
Wanted to clarify one point

[roddy]

It's certainly very liberal, and I didn't refer to the Chinese as I was doing it, although I had read it earlier. Industry associations may well not be appropriate, etc.

It depends on what your client wants. Some of mine want a warts and all version as they need to know what the Chinese says, some want something publishable and the Chinese isn't going to be looked at again, some can't tell the difference.

[Sam Addington]

Thank you very much for your input.

I have trouble getting from the original document to a document that is publishable in an American publication. I guess that's why I don't like to edit documents. I'd rather just be a translator. IMHO, the translator should not be expected to edit but rather to present the document as is (while still obeying English clause order expectations and basic English rules.)

[roddy]

IMHO, the translator should not be expected to edit but rather to present the document as is (while still obeying English clause order expectations and basic English rules.)

I think in clients' often not-so-humble opinions, the translator needs to do as asked if he wants to keep getting work. I certainly pitch things differently for different jobs.

If you want to remove yourself from the process of knocking an obvious translation into a non-obvious one that's your call, but for my money it's the more interesting and challenging part of the job. Just wish I was better at it - as I think I've said on here before, understanding the Chinese isn't often a major issue, writing the English is.

[chengwenzhao]

For long sentences,It is hard to analyse even for natives.So you have to culture a kind of sense to it by reading and using it.The sentence you've given is absolutely right but not oral way of speaking Chinese,such often appears on books ,mettings etc.As to deal long sentences,first thing you should do is to cross out adj &adv and other parts which are not that important to the sentence.(Even in China,teachers recommend student do it that way).Then atfer you get the meaning of the sentence,you can restore the deleted part and it is more clear to understand.You translation is ok,you don't have to organise it in one sentence,the purpose is to make readers understand the actual meaning.