Anyone studying in Henan?

[Flying Pigeon]

Hi,

Wondering if anyone is studying Mandarin in Zhengzhou, Kaifeng, or Shangqiu in Henan. If so, I'd like to hear your opinions.

Thanks in advance.

Dean

[lzreading]

I am from Zhengzhou. If you want to learn mandarin in Henan, Zhengzhou, Kaifeng and Luoyang are the places to stay. They all have reputable universities and over thousands years of history. A lot of interesting places to see if your are into Chinese history. Shangqiu is not recommended, pretty small city and a bit backward comparing to the above three.

[wushijiao]

I spent my first year or so in place near Zhengzhou. I think Henan is a decent place to study, especially if you want to get fluent fast (by being away from other foreigners, and by talking to lots of friendly and out-going locals) and whatnot. Henan has some of the best things about China and some of the hardest things about living in China, so that's another great/horrible thing (depending on the day, hour).

If you have any more detailed questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[maboren]

wushijiao,

How different is the local dialect around Zhengzhou when compared to putonghua?

I am currently trying to decide on a place to study in China during the fall, and after talking to several people and reading up on these boards, I've decided against studying in Chengdu. But now I'm not sure where would be best for me.

Also, if you attended university in Henan, could you give some information about that?

thanks in advance

[wushijiao]

Well, basically, there are two man schools of thought:

1) Go to a place that speaks Putonghua that as closely resembles standard Putonghua and tapes and CDs as possible (ie Harbin). This will, hopefully, allow your speaking to be clear and crisp in acquired accent, and will decrease the time needed n understanding local accents.

2) Go to a place that speaks a dialects or regionalect based on Putonghua, but that s somewhat off from Putonghua. 800 million people or so speak Putonhua, but many speak it with a local accent. Some people say that, since you can hear 100% standard Putonghua accents on radio, TV, CDs, tapes…etc, it isn’t hard to master that accident per se, but rather the slightly similar accents that are closely related, but that get little attention in officialdom that are harder to understand.

Well, as you can imagine, Henanhua-style Putonghua falls into category #2. The accents are sometimes difficult to understand, sometimes easy to understand (depending on a person’s socio-economic status). The Henan accent is slightly flat, tone-wise, which one should be aware of. But, on the positive side, if you try to be outgoing and friendly, you will find plenty of opportunities to speak, and could get conversational quite quickly.

[zipstone]

Hi, I spent my first 18 years in Kaifeng, Henan.

Basically, I agree with Wushijiao.

Dialect should be a concern if a foreigner wants to study Chinese. Mandarin (Putonghua) is undoubtedly the best choice. Just like if you want to study German you go to Hannover, if Japanese Tokyo, if French Paris, etc.

The Mandarin accent has been derived from the different accents in the northen part of China, especially the from the dialect around Beijing. Personally I believe the dialect closest to mandarin is the dialect used in northern Shanxi.

A little background knowledge: geographically,agriculturally and cuturally, Changjiang River, or Yangtze River is the boundary between northen and southern China)

In the northen part of China, people speaking different dialects generally can understand each other pretty well, meaning, the difference between thoses dialects are minor. This is shaped by history. Historically, this part of China enjoyed long time unity and therefore cutural consistency can be observed. The dialect in Henan is different from mandarin, but not so different as some southern dialects, like Cantonese, Taiwanese, Shanghainese. Henanese to mandarin is like Dutch to English, or Spanish to Portuguese, but not like Russian to English.

In the southern part of China, the dialects differ from each other greatly. In some region, even people 5 miles away don't understand each other. In addition, almost none of those dialects is understood by a person growing up in the north.

[wushijiao]

Henanese to mandarin is like Dutch to English, or Spanish to Portuguese, but not like Russian to English.

I'd say it's a bt more like Southern American English compared to the sort of American English that is most frequently heard (ie. a non-descript, Mid-Western accent). I think that analogy is a bt better, since speakers of Mandarin should have few troubles in communicating with speakers of Henanhua.

But just to expand on the topic of “where should I study?” a bit further, I’d basically put the main criteria that your looking for into a few major categories:

- Location based on accent

- Socio-linguistic factors

- Quality of program and price

- Other personal factors.

As far as accents, I think I outlined that in the above post.

As far as socio-linguistic factors, by this I mean…to what degree do local people know English? To what degree is it easy to strike up a conversation with locals on the street? How many other foreigners are there in the city? While it is possible to get nothing accomplished in any city, of course, I still think that you will be able to get into more conversations and speak with more confidence if you go to a place that has few foreigners and where the locals generally speak no English. In this sense, even as a beginner, going to a place like Henan will put your Mandarin skills above the locals English skills in 95% of daily interactions and situations. Similarly, since there are basically no foreigners around, people are curious to meet you and tell you their opinions and ask yours (the downside is you feel like a monkey in a zoo, but it’s a small price to pay for speaking with fluency). Finally, even in cities that have very few expats (ie. Zhengzhou, Kaifeng…etc) it is probable that you will meet the other expats and start to hang out with them. Nonetheless, overall, I think overall its easer to avoid the expat scene in cities that have few expats and underdeveloped nightlife. (Often it’s a choice of deciding whether or not to hang out with some crazies, quite frankly).

-Quality of program and price is fairly obvious. I’d add, however, that if you are a fairly independent studier or experienced language learner, then this factor really isn’t all that important. Of course, others benefit from more rigid structure.

-Other factors….this could include weather, food, nightlife (I guess many people need great Western restaurants and clubs).

I think that, based on your own needs, personality, and Mandarin level, the above factors will change. I personally feel that beginners should strongly weigh socio-linguistic factors at least as heavily as any other. As time goes on and your Mandarin reaches intermediate and advanced levels, however, this factor becomes less and less important.