Electricity shortage

[Quest]

I am not saying people in the USA should enjoy these things while the Chinese should not. What I am saying is that China needs to reassess what is realistic for its people to aspire to. The USA and other countries in turn have to consider that their current levels of consumption are unsustainable and need to be moderated.

That is like communism. Rosy? yes. Practical? no. Why? because of human nature.

[Ian_Lee]

Regarding refrigerator, it looks like most Chinese households are using the smaller models produced by Haier or Sanyo while most American households are using those supersize two-door models made by GE or Hotpoint.

IMHO the former models should be more energy saving.

But for automobile, lately WSJ published an article mentioning that Chinese customers prefer those gas guzzling Buick which runs only 12 miles/gallon.

[imron]

IMHO the former models should be more energy saving.

Actually, size has little to do with how energy efficient a refridgerator is. Far more important is the design, the location of components, the type and quality of insulating material used, the type and quality of seal used on the doors etc.

http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/icebox2.htm

has a good description of what to look for.

Anyway, I don't know who makes the most energy efficient fridges, but just wanted to say that you can't go by the size of the fridge when making such a judgement. A well designed, well insulated supersize fridge can be far more energy efficient than a poorly designed, poorly insulated one.

[Ian_Lee]

Nuclear power? But what would China do with the waste? It may be more and more manageble, but I'm concerned that China wouldn't bother, that they would just dump it in some lake, or bury it somewhere, and then in 50 or 100 years there will be a big problem.

Actually there are ways to solve the nuclear waste problem.

Anybody remembers that in 1997, Taiwan's government-owned Taipower signed a contract with North Korea to export its nuclear waste and bury them down inside North Korea's abandoned mines. In return, the cash-strapped Pyongyang government accepted hefty greenback payment from Taiwan.

But the plan aborted due to South Korea's protest.

Since North Korea is much more cash-strapped now than 1997 and unlike Taipei, Beijing probably can ignore South Korea's protest as it has recently done regarding the listing of Koguryo tombs as cultural heritage with UNESCO.

Probably Kim Jr may even offer a big discount to Beijing for the dumping based on the special brotherhood bond between DPRK and PRC!

[waxwing]

This is a very interesting discussion but I wonder if anyone knows what China's official government policy is on the energy crisis? I guess they don't really feel they need to tell anyone, not being a democracy 'n all.

Oil prices hit another all-time-high today. Scary.

[kaylene]

China is actually investing quite heavily in nuclear power - 9 new nuclear power plants being built (one in Jiangsu especially for Shanghai). The government realises that it is facing an energy crisis and seems to be adressing it in a number of ways. They are trying to limit the amount of energy heavy industries that are built in certain areas. Efficient fridges are good but domestic consumption is only a part of the problem. Industries like aluminium smelting take a massive amount of electricity.

(and by the way I think that nuclear power can be very good - it certainly isn't evil)

For China to keep developing they must (like the rest of the world) diversify their energy sources. There is no perfect way of getting energy at the moment. The dangers of fossil fuels are well known and they are running out, nuclear energy has problems with waste disposal, hydro is very limited in where it can be used and is quite destructive (it isn't just the flooded area there are issues due to the heating of the water as it passes through - tends to deoxygenate and kill ecosystems down stream), solar is inefficient and there are pollutants when the cells are produced, etc etc The most efficient thing to do is produce energy near where you want to use it. Energy is wasted when you transport electricity over long distances so the best thing to do is have a range of energy production methods on smaller scales.

and thus ends todays science lesson...

Of course it would be far better to use less energy but you just have to look at the problems facing the Kyoto Protocol to see that isn't a particularly popular option politically.

[39degN]

Since North Korea is much more cash-strapped now than 1997 and unlike Taipei, Beijing probably can ignore South Korea's protest as it has recently done regarding the listing of Koguryo tombs as cultural heritage with UNESCO.

Probably Kim Jr may even offer a big discount to Beijing for the dumping based on the special brotherhood bond between DPRK and PRC!

I don't think this situation will happen, as other than Taiwan or any small countries, china has a certain area of uninhabitable desert, its enough to dispose nuclear waste, we don't have to export it to other places.

i think it could be happened btw japan and north corea.

[Ian_Lee]

39degN:

I was just teasing in the last post but actually it is not such a bad idea to export one's environmental problems to your neighbor. (US has always shipped out its garbage.)

But the energy crunch actually turns into a national security nightmare for PRC.

This year PRC will import 110 million barrels of crude oil -- a 21% increase from the previous year. It also imports 40 million barrels of refined oil -- a 40% increase from the previous year.

Now it is the world's 2nd largest oil importer and over 1/3 of all its oils are imported (with 60% from Middle East).

Moreover, unlike US or Japan, PRC doesn't have Strategic Oil Reserve. Its oil well like Daqing is gradually depleted and Russia stedfastly refused to build pipeline from its Far East to China.

So PRC is now becoming more and more like Japan of 1973 -- highly vulnerable and dependable on foreign oil import.

If cross-strait tension will escalate in 2008 as many people predict, I am afraid PRC will back down faster than Taiwan surrenders if US imposes oil embargo!

[bhchao]

This article came out just in time for this discussion. The administration of California governor Schwarzenegger is proposing to have 50% of all new homes equipped with solar panels within 10 years. The electricity shortage in California 3 years ago hit consumers real hard with high electricity bills, and many businesses were forced to turn off lights during peak hours, which hurt technology businesses.

Schwarzenegger is offering incentives to existing homeowners who add solar technology to their homes; and financial rebates to homebuilders who add solar panels to new homes. The incentives will be funded by electricity surcharges on utility customers. Under the proposed plan, the goal is to have 50% of all new homes equipped with the technology by 2020.

Currently California is taking the lead in environmental issues and setting an example for the rest of the US to follow. Right now all eyes are on California to see how well it uses energy efficiency to improve the environment.

I heard the air quality in Shanghai and other Chinese urban cities is really bad due to the increase in the number of people driving cars and industrial pollution. The air quality today in Shanghai and Beijing is probably comparable to the air quality in LA during the 1970's and early 1980's.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-solar3aug03,1,6452392.story?coll=la-headlines-california

[bhchao]

Just a crazy idea, but maybe someone should start a business in Shanghai that invests in this technology and get rich by selling it to utility customers in the energy-starved city.

[39degN]

...If cross-strait tension will escalate in 2008 as many people predict, I am afraid PRC will back down faster than Taiwan surrenders if US imposes oil embargo!

Actually Chinese government highly realized this and issued new tactics, if my memory serves me correctly, china right now held the most shares of a Kazakstan's oil field, has finished the building of pipeline from Kazakstan to Talimu, and positively strive for building pipeline from Russia to Daqing, seems there's still hope(not like what you've mentioned), though she has to face the two strong competitors japan and south korea. Meanwhile seems they are so interested in merging any foreign oil co. if possible.

BTW, sure i knew you were teasing, Ian!

[39degN]

Just a crazy idea, but maybe someone should start a business in Shanghai that invests in this technology and get rich by selling it to utility customers in the energy-starved city.

im just curious if the sunshine is enough for providing the solar batteries during the 梅雨 season in shanghai.

[shibo77]

Water power, of course! China has lots of volumes of water that could be dammed to make electricity.

-Shibo

[geek_frappa]

fuel cells will also help, especially in the villages, where many people may freeze to death this winter, unless something drastic is done...

[Széchenyi]

Sorry, but I think it is just ridiculous to say that nuclear is evil.

One could say it is more dangerous than the alternatives, and thus shouldn't be used.

The problem is that there are no real alternatives - except cole energy. And the big advantage of nuclear power is that combines the flexibility of cole energy with an advantage of renewable energies: not producing any carbon dioxide or other waste gasses.

[Quest]

We don't really need nuclear-anything in this world...

and the earth just can't afford that risk.

[bhchao]

With rising temperatures throughout the world, China should seriously consider eliminating the use of coal to produce electricity. China has experienced phenomenal growth over the past decade, but this growth has made China one of the biggest contributors to global warming due to the burning of coal and the rapid increase in the number of people driving cars. China's sea levels are rising, and sooner or later Shanghai will be submerged under water.

The US is the biggest contributor to global warming, producing about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. Although China's carbon dioxide emissions per capita is far lower than the US and other developed countries, it is projected to surpass the US within the next few decades, assuming it sustains its current pace of growth and its emission of heat-trapping gases.

Both China and the US should take the lead in reducing global carbon dioxide emissions. A good first step would be to find ways to increase energy efficiency and completely eliminating coal usage. Otherwise the whole world will be living in an oven within the next century.

[Guest Yau]

I think the short term solution is nuclear power.

I'll be amazed if even one person agrees with me, though.

nuclear powre is okay if it's owned by mainlanders, but managed by non-mainlanders. Consider the funny news about the New Baiyun Airport, it'll be no joke if it's happened in a nuclear plant.

Chinese's QC is a problem.

[bhchao]

Hmm, at least nuclear is a better alternative than coal to produce the same amount of electricity, certainly much cleaner. But nuclear has its problems. I don't entirely disagree with wix.

[Guest Yau]

Hmm, at least nuclear is a better alternative than coal to produce the same amount of electricity, certainly much cleaner. But nuclear has its problems. I don't entirely disagree with wix.

If the recent shortage of electricity encourages a nuclear boom and boast in china, it'll be a time bomb to put all our life in risk. It must be very careful to deal with the problem, and avoid another silicon-valley boom happen again in china. The mainland china quality control is too good to believe.