lou shang and lou xia

[anxoperez]

Can any one tell me if lou shang and lou xia (upstairs and downstairs, if I understand it correctly) can ONLY be used when, like in English, there are stairs in between and not, for example, when it just means above or below?

thanks

[Hofmann]

Stairs are not necessary.

(There aren't any stairs between your post and mine, right?)

[imron]

In real life it refers to being either above or below a certain floor of a building. On the internet, lou shang refers to posts above yours (imagine posts on a forums/bbs as being one big long building, with each post being a floor).

[anxoperez]

So, can we just say that they mean ABOVE and BELOW, or is there another way to say that (like shangbian, or xiamian)?

[imron]

No, it's not above and below, it's more like upstairs and downstairs - it's just that it can also be used metaphorically for things like Internet posts.

[anxoperez]

I see.

Can you think of any other exceptions of where it is used besides posts?

[Hofmann]

Perhaps the "stairs" part of the English word "upstairs" is misleading. 樓上/樓下 doesn't imply any stairs. Only a multistory building. Therefore, 樓上 only means the level(s) in the building (or thread) above the speaker's level.

[jade-]

If there is a building more than one floor, we use 楼上 to refer the floor(s) up and 楼下 the floor(s) down. So if you use 楼上楼下 for upstairs or downstairs here, you are correct. However, sometimes you might see these two words in web sites, they generally mean in a thread the posts before or after your post, or refer the person who posts before or after you, or if you prefer to say, above and below you/your post. But in the other occasions, they cannot be referred as above and below.

Hope this helps.

[Altair]

If there is a building more than one floor, we use 楼上 to refer the floor(s) up and 楼下 the floor(s) down.

If I am on the third floor and I say 楼下, could this refer to the second floor, or only the ground floor?

Also, in American English, the first floor is the same as the ground floor, but in French, Spanish, and maybe in British English, the "first floor" means the "first floor above the ground floor." (This would be the second floor in American English). These languages have a special word for the floor that is on the level of the street. How does this work in Chinese? Do I walk from the street onto the 第一楼? Even in Hong Kong and Singapore?

[imron]

If I am on the third floor and I say 楼下, could this refer to the second floor, or only the ground floor?

楼下 is any floor below you, but typically the floor directly below you. Likewise for 楼上.

These languages have a special word for the floor that is on the level of the street. How does this work in Chinese?

In mainland china, the floor that is at ground level is 一楼 or 一层。You wouldn't say 第X楼 to refer to individual floors.

Not sure if HK and Singapore use a different convention.

[fanglu]

By way of contrast...

楼下 is any floor below you, but typically the floor directly below you. Likewise for 楼上.

My co-workers (in a Chinese law firm in Sydney) often use 楼下 as including anywhere outside (but nearby) our building.

In mainland china, the floor that is at ground level is 一楼 or 一层。

Our office is on what in China would be called 二楼, but we follow the Australian pattern of calling it 一楼. Thinking about it now, I guess it would be pretty confusing if the floor had a different name depending on what language you were speaking. (Having said that, we do use 国内 to refer to China, but 'onshore' to refer to Australia, which is almost as bad.)

[imron]

often use 楼下 as including anywhere outside (but nearby) our building.

Yep, that's because 楼 has two meanings, one is building, and one is floor. The "everywhere outside (but nearby)" 楼下 is the building meaning of 楼, and the "downstairs" 楼下 is the floor 楼.

but we follow the Australian pattern of calling it 一楼.

What do you call the ground floor?

[Altair]

In mainland china, the floor that is at ground level is 一楼 or 一层。You wouldn't say 第X楼 to refer to individual floors.

Thanks for the reminder.

Yep, that's because 楼 has two meanings, one is building, and one is floor. The "everywhere outside (but nearby)" 楼下 is the building meaning of 楼, and the "downstairs" 楼下 is the floor 楼.

Suppose we work in the same company with you on the fourth floor near the reception desk and me on the fifth floor. If I say something like:

我们出去吃中饭吧。楼下见面好不好? (I'm not sure I got this right)

Does this likely mean that we should meet up on the fourth floor, the ground floor, or outside the main entrance? I once had this kind of conversation in French and managed to screw it up.

[skylee]

Also, in American English, the first floor is the same as the ground floor, but in French, Spanish, and maybe in British English, the "first floor" means the "first floor above the ground floor." (This would be the second floor in American English). These languages have a special word for the floor that is on the level of the street. How does this work in Chinese? Do I walk from the street onto the 第一楼? Even in Hong Kong and Singapore?

In Hong Kong, Ground Floor is 地下(or if it is called Lobby or Atrium or other fancy names then it is 大堂 or 中庭 etc). Underground floors are 地庫X層 or we simply call them in English like UG1 etc. When I was little, 1st floor is 二樓 (written in Chinese completely) or 1樓 (part number, part Chinese) and it was very confusing. Nowadays, it is, AFAIK, 1樓.

[trien27]

In Hong Kong, Ground Floor is 地下(or if it is called Lobby or Atrium or other fancy names then it is 大堂 or 中庭 etc). Underground floors are 地庫X層 or we simply call them in English like UG1 etc. When I was little, 1st floor is 二樓 (written in Chinese completely) or 1樓 (part number, part Chinese) and it was very confusing. Nowadays, it is, AFAIK, 1樓.

__________________

Was the confusion due to Hong Kong being , at first, a British colony, but is, now, a part of China?

Also, in American English, the first floor is the same as the ground floor,

. In American English, what's called first floor, lobby, etc... are also, but if only rarely, called main floor or ground floor, depending on where you are.

What's called an Underground floor in Hong Kong is either called a "basement", "lower level" or the cellar [sometimes called the "C level" (no puns intended: get it, "sea level"?)] in American English.

In some hospitals, the level below "first floor" in American English, is called the C level, but sometimes this same level is called the "Lower Level", and the level below it is called the "C level" or vice versa. Go figure.

Edited March 28, 2009 at 02:53 PM by trien27
Additional information

[roddy]

In Hong Kong, Ground Floor is 地下

Up here 地下 is definitely under the ground.

[trien27]

the "first floor" means the "first floor above the ground floor." (This would be the second floor in American English)

I don't think so.

It only depends on what you mean:

You really need to make a distinction between "First floor" & "Ground floor" before you can call the level above it a "first floor" or "second floor" in American English.

If you say "First floor" and mean the level above the "basement" in American English, then the floor above this is called the "first floor".

But in some places, where some British terms are retained, then "first floor" would be the "second floor" in American English.

[imron]

Does this likely mean that we should meet up on the fourth floor, the ground floor, or outside the main entrance?

If you said this to me, then I would be either waiting in the lobby of the ground floor, or if there was no lobby, then outside the entrance.

[trien27]

我们出去吃中饭吧。楼下见面好不好?

If you said this to me, I'll wait outside the building. It's not likely you would eat inside the same building that you work when you say "我们出去吃中饭吧!", which is the Chinese equivalent of the English "Let's (go {out to} have) lunch [together]". 出去 = "to go out" with 楼下 here, meaning "downstairs, & outside [the building]".

Unless you specifically tell the other person you want to meet at a certain floor, then you would be meeting on one of the floors before going out to lunch.

Edited March 28, 2009 at 03:32 PM by trien27
Additional information

[trien27]

樓上 / 楼上 = lou shang = upstairs

樓下 / 楼下= lou xia = downstairs

上樓 [去]* / 上楼 [去]* = shang lou [qü4 or qǜ]* = go upstairs

下樓 [去]* / 下楼 [去]* = xia lou [qü4 or qǜ]* = go downstairs

*[去] = [qü4 or qǜ] might or might not be used in other dialects besides Mandarin.

Edited March 28, 2009 at 03:44 PM by trien27
additional information