Chinese IME & Tones

[glyntr]

Hi,

My biggest problem in Chinese is my inability to remember tones, so I want to use an IME which at least allows me (if not forces me) to input tones. My ideal IME would be one that is both efficient (perhaps SHUANGYIN) but accepts tones as well.

• MS IME - allows tonal input, but it is a bit primitive.
  
• Zhuyin (bopomofo) - designed with tones in mind, but forces learning of new keyboard layout, and requires input in Taiwanese Chinese as opposed to Mainland Chinese (ie. slight pronunciation and tonal differences).
  
• Google IME - My IME of choice but no ability to accept pinyin+TONE input.
  

Any ideas?

[Shadowdh]

If its just the pinyin with the tone mark above it you are after you really cant go past pinyin input by Imron our own beloved admin... http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/10274-pinyinput-type-pinyin-with-tone-marks works very well and very helpful too...

[glyntr]

Thanks for your reply.

But I actually want to input characters as per a normal IME, but do so in an efficient and tone-ful way .

Thanks

[grashopa99]

Hey guys,

I just got a new Windows 7 machine and a Mac. I previously had Windows XP and the MS pinyin input for XP allowed you to type ni3 and see only the third tone ni characters. For me this is very important for my Chinese study and I have found no other IME for windows or mac that supports this. Am I missing an IME or some setting somewhere? Does anyone else input the tones as a way to remember them?

[roddy]

Merged with answer

[jbradfor]

I don't think that's the answer. grashopa99 wrote "see only the third tone ni characters." What I think grashopa99 wants is a pinyin-based character IME that lets one specify the tone, to make finding the correct character easier.

[roddy]

You're right. Merged with earlier version of the question (hope I got it right this time). Sorry, new guy!

[jbradfor]

Or, in this case, merged with non-answer I would also like such an IME. I wish google pinyin IME supported that.

[roddy]

I think IMEs are going to be focused on reducing the amount of information you need to put in, rather than increasing it. This would be a learner-specific feature, and as such the market would be minimal compared to the mass of Chinese people.

[skylee]

Perhaps you need a pinyin input method like this -> http://www.fhpi.cn/hanyqiuanw.htm (note the tones are not numbers but vwxy, probably for higher speed).

[skylee]

Or perhaps simply use Microsoft New Phonetic IME for Window 7. http://www.pinyinjoe...up-p2-fanti.htm

The Microsoft New Phonetic IME, developed in Taiwan. This is the most common choice. Unlike the PRC IME, this one allows you to enter tone numbers after syllables (as in "zhu4yin1") or not ("zhuyin").

You can choose to have output in simplified Chinese if you want.

PS - I have not used this programme (or the one in #10 above). But I wonder, as this one was developed in Taiwan, if the pronunciation standard is the same as the Mainland's. If you want to try it I guess you could test if 星期 is xing1qi1 or xing1qi2, and if 危險 is wei1xian3 or wei2xian3.

[jbradfor]

skylee, FTW!

roddy, on one hand I agree. OTOH, when trying to enter a character pronounce "yi", adding the tone is nice. Maybe in that case native speakers pick a two-character word that contains the "yi", enters that, and then erases the unneeded character....

[roddy]

True, and good find Skylee!

[renzhe]

This might not help the OP, but scim (under Linux) supports entering tone numbers, it's just disabled by default.

[grashopa99]

"This might not help the OP, but scim (under Linux) supports entering tone numbers, it's just disabled by default. "

This does help me, thanks!

And using the Taiwanese new phonetic I see that 星期 is xing1qi2 ... I cannot figure out how to have it output simplified though.

[grashopa99]

Ugh, without tones this has to ridiculously slow down even someone who is fluent no? I mean whenever you want to output a single character with no context you have 100 options to scroll through. Adding a simple tone that doesn't even have to be used means the character you want will always most likely be in the top 10 options. Typing names is killing me. I have to keep booting up my XP machine for the chinese IME.

[renzhe]

One trick people use is to type a common word containing the needed character, then deleting what is not needed. It's not very optimal, though, phonetic input rarely is.

[imron]

Ugh, without tones this has to ridiculously slow down even someone who is fluent no?

Quite the opposite. For most people who are fluent, typing the tones would slow them down. Modern pinyin-based input methods work on words and sentences and derive the correct character from context. They also remember frequently used characters and move these closer to the top of the selection list. This may make typing an individual, rarer character that shares the same pronunciation as many other characters more time-consuming, but only the first time it needs to be typed in (if your input method doesn't support these features, it's time to look for one that does!).

The trade-off in complexity for requiring you to type tones just isn't worth it. Having to type extra keys just slows things down when most of the time the IME can guess from context. A good example of this, is switching to 双音-based entry which lets you type a key for 'initial+final' instead of typing a key for each letter in the syllable. This reduction in keypresses can result in significant speed gains.

Personally, I prefer to use shape-based IMEs like Wubi.

[Iriya]

Yeah, modern pinyin based IMEs are extremely fast. E.g. you can just type cflm to get 吃饭了吗.

[roddy]

And given that they're being updated regularly they're a lot more likely to have names you might need - obviously not your friends, but people in the news and so on.

I'd also query the impact on typing time having to hit the 1,2,3 or 4 key constantly would have.