Another Translation help request

[stelingo]

I would really appreciate it if someone could check the translation below and help me with a couple of sentences I simply don't understand. The passage is taken from the textbook I am using: 'A Key to Chinese Speech and Writing' Many thanks.

我的老师是中国的名人. My teacher is a famous person in China.

他的书法很好,是文字学大师. His calligraphy is very good, it is the writing study great master. (?)

他的老大是大学生,学文学,书法也很好. His elder son is a university student. He studies literature. His calligraphy is also very good.

他的老二是中学生,书法不怎么样. His second child is a middle(high?) school student, his calligraphy is not very good.

没人说他汉字写得好看. There is nobody who says that he writes hanzi beautifully.

不过,他的语文很好. But his written language is very good.

他好看小人书,小说,汉语也说得好. ???, novel, he speaks Chinese well.

在中国,小学生人人都学书法. In China all primary school students learn calligraphy.

我的看法,中国书法好看,不好学. In my opinion Chinese calligraphy is nice to look at but not easy to learn.

[Lu]

是文字学大师. He (not it, this is about the teacher) is a master in calligraphy studies (calligraphology, not sure what the term would be).

他好看小人书,小说 He likes to read (here it's hao4 kan4, with hao4 meaning 'to like, to love') children's books and novels.

I hope this helps!

[skylee]

他好看小人书,小说 He likes to read (here it's hao4 kan4, with hao4 meaning 'to like, to love') children's books and novels.

wow, Lu you are great. 小人书 = children's books? Never heard of it.

[leeyah]

Hi stelingo!

Hey, what kind of textbook is it actually? Pardon my question but some sentences sound rather weird, take

在中国,小学生人人都学书法

for example, this looks like a dialect to me, as standard putonghua would probably use simple but universal plural + 都. Or are these sentences from the "Speech" part? Guess it's ok then, always plenty of things to learn from the vernacular

不过,他的语文很好. But his written language is very good.

I think 语文 here carries the meaning of both his spoken language and his writing abilities, so, apart from writing horrid characters he nevertheless......speaks and writes very well in Chinese. (意味着, i.e. implying that his speaking and writing abilities are very good)

Also, no need to translate literally word-for-word

没人说他汉字写得好看

Just say it in simple English: Everybody says his hanzi characters aren't the prettiest in the world

As for Lu's rendering of 小人书 into children's books, well, the definition of 小人书 or 小人儿书 = 装订成册连环画 = picture-story book, cartoon-strip book, so...?

Further reading on 小人书 and actually a collection of them @

http://www.xrs8.com/

http://baike.baidu.com/view/149642.htm

http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=%D0%A1%C8%CB%CA%E9

Edited April 1, 2009 at 05:41 PM by leeyah
spotted a typo in defintion of 小人书 :)

[Lu]

Leeyah, I think this is from a textbook and that 人人 was put in to drive home the shengci. You're right that it's rarely used in real life.

Skylee, I was just guessing the meaning of 小人书. If it's not children's books and you know what it does mean, just let us know. No need to be sarcastic.

[leeyah]

Lu, your guess was correct, or say very close, it must be a kind of a ”forerunner“ of picture books for children as we know them today. Anyway, the Chinese are credited for all the most useful inventions, lets' add cartoon-books, too

[HashiriKata]

I know this book. It was written by Joel Bellassen with Zhang Pengpeng ('s calligraphy ?). I looked through it some time ago and did notice some unusual Chinese, so I wouldn't be surprised if you also spot some unconventional phrases.

Edited April 1, 2009 at 07:08 PM by HashiriKata

[stelingo]

Thanks to everyone who answered. I am new to the forum and can't see anyway to quote when replying. How do I do this?

As Hashirikata mentioned this is indeed a textbook written by Joel Bellassen with Zhang Pengpeng. It is rather dated but I like it because it teaches both spoken and written Mandarin, but doesn't overwhelm you in each lesson with vocab and hanzi. As I'm very much a beginner I'm not in a position to know if the language is strange or not.

I think the main lessons are fine, but there is a reading passage every 5 lessons with no English translation. The idea is that the passage uses the Hanzi already covered in new combinations and contexts for the reader to work out. Hence the strange phrases perhaps?

Leeyah, I did a literal translation because I wanted to be sure of the meaning and use of every hanzi.

Lu, what did you mean by the term shengci?

How would this sentence be phrased in more natural Mandarin?

在中国,小学生人人都学书法.

Thanks again everyone.

[jade-]

小人书 is a picture book which formal name is 连环画. In it, the story is told by a series of pictures. Each page mainly has a picture and there are one or two line sentences below the picture. They are not necessary funny; most of them are just regular stories. They are black and white in general and printed on the paper for regular book, but only about half size of the regular book. Actually many renowned books like 水浒，三国演义，西游记，红楼梦, etc. have been depicted as 小人书. 小人书 were primary for children, but for those adults who could not read much, they were also the good source of entertainment – at the time when TV was not so popular.

小人书 is a popular name for 连环画 among kids in China.

[skylee]

Lu, I was not being sarcastic. I had never heard of the term 小人書, and I really didn't know what it meant. Sorry for causing your misunderstanding.

[imron]

I am new to the forum and can't see anyway to quote when replying. How do I do this?

When you write a reply, press the button. See here and here for more information.

[leeyah]

It is rather dated but I like it because it teaches both spoken and written Mandarin, but doesn't overwhelm you in each lesson with vocab and hanzi. As I'm very much a beginner I'm not in a position to know if the language is strange or not.

It's ok, I remember my first steps in Japanese back in the 90's, learning from a simple text book published in the 70's. Quite a few outdated expressions in it (including the obsolete watakushi for watashi), but it was a actually a good book to start with and proved a solid base for later study.

How would this sentence be phrased in more natural Mandarin?

在中国,小学生人人都学书法.

Well, I'd say something like:中国小学生们都学习书法 or 中国的小学生都学习书法 or you can also expand it into:start learning from... 中国小孩从小学就开始学书法

[stelingo]

Quote:

How would this sentence be phrased in more natural Mandarin?

在中国,小学生人人都学书法.

Well, I'd say something like:中国小学生们都学习书法 or 中国的小学生都学习书法 or you can also expand it into:start learning from... 中国小孩从小学就开始学书法

Sorry Leeyah but I don't know many Hanzi yet. Could you write your examples in pinyin? Thanks.

[HashiriKata]

Sorry Leeyah but I don't know many Hanzi yet. Could you write your examples in pinyin?

Well, I'd say something like: Zhōngguó xiǎoxuéshengmen dōu xuéxí shūfǎ or Zhōngguó de xiǎoxuésheng dōu xuéxí shūfǎ or you can also expand it into:start learning from... Zhōngguó xiǎohái cóng xiǎoxué jiù kāishǐ xué shūfǎ

It is rather dated but I like it

One of the things I like about the book is it familiarises you with Chinese hand-writing. I don't mind dated material and I don't think this book is that old. I just feel that there are places the Chinese in it doesn't sound very idiomatic (and even occasionally faulty!). A casual dip into it (volume 2) now, I again see sentences such as this:

春节前后，不论是城市和农村都特别热闹。

Since it's a language textbook, I think the authors should check the language more vigorously.

[stelingo]

One of the things I like about the book is it familiarises you with Chinese hand-writing. I don't mind dated material and I don't think this book is that old. I just feel that there are places the Chinese in it doesn't sound very idiomatic (and even occasionally faulty!). A casual dip into it (volume 2) now, I again see sentences such as this:

春节前后，不论是城市和农村都特别热闹。

Since it's a language textbook, I think the authors should check the language more vigorously.

Well I'm only on lesson 4 volume 1, so quite a bit to go before I reach volume 2. Thanks for the pinyin.

[storyline]

Here's what I've come across on line. Since the phrase was new for me too I can't vouch for its accuracy.

"小人书学名叫连环画，是我国传统的艺术形式。最早的连环画是长沙马王堆出土的西汉故事画。到了清末有了石版印刷，连环画艺术趋向成熟。

“文革”以后到80年代，小人书发展进入鼎盛期。十一届三中全会后，除去《人到中年》、《蒋筑英》等现代材以外，还有不少外国名著和中国名著小人书受到欢迎。像《东郭先生》、《杨家将》等书创下了出版发行的纪录。"

Evidently it was primarily meant for children. and "漫画" is the modern form, and can be for adults as well.

Edited June 14, 2009 at 04:30 AM by storyline
Didn't complete the title!