Bringing all my money with me

[joshuawbb]

Hello, sorry for once again jumping in with another question...

I'll be going to Xiamen in July to attend Xiamen University. I have most things set now except from getting insurance and exchanging my JW-202 for my visa. I know there are numerous topics already here about money, but please forgive me that I'm quite confused.

Minus the cost for the flight, I need to bring about £3600 with me physically, but I don't really know the best way of doing that. From looking around the internet, I have heard of traveller's cheques, withdrawing from ATMs, wiring the lot over or simply carrying it in cash.

The thought of bringing it in cash or using traveller's cheques is enough to give my parents a heart attack since they don't feel comfortable knowing I'd be carrying such a huge amount with me. Is using an ATM any good? I've heard so many different opinions. I want to pay the least amount of fees possible and get my money with me as simply and safely as I can.

Sorry if I sound ignorant, but how does using an ATM with my UK account actually work? I would presume I put in my UK debit card and go on from there. Obviously I won't be withdrawing GBP, so would I expect to find my money in CNY in my account? Also, I know the fees are probably different depending on the bank, and presuming they are likely sky-high anyway, I'd like to avoid them.

I'm not necessarily going to bring every penny of my savings on my first day. I will be setting up a bank account immediately and hope to use that. I just need to bring enough with me to cover any fees and extra stuff (university registration, health exam, travel fees, etc, and maybe the initial apartment rent) for my first day/few days until I have a stable place for my money.

At the moment, it looks like traveller's cheques and some cash on the side seems the best? I'm quite unsure. Could someone advise me what is best, or what did you do if you brought a large sum of money with you on your first day in China?

You might remember me; I'll hopefully be staying in China for the foreseeable future presuming things go as I hope.

Off-topic: just something extra; I received my JW-202 today and plan to take it to the Chinese Embassy in London very soon. Doing all the health tests in the UK would be expensive and inconvenient, so from people's views on this forum, I've decided to wait until I get to Xiamen to do the health exam. Can I confirm that this would be okay?

Secondly, on the JW-202, my girlfriend is listed as the contact/guarantor in China. I wrote her there on advice from the university who said it would be okay. However, later this month her address will change due to a change of location. Her original company address is not on the JW-202 but the university have that. Should I notify the university or embassy of this change? Will it pose a problem?

A very, very big thank you to everyone here. This is such a great place, and I feel guilty that I've posted more questions than answers here.

[Lu]

Traveller cheques are not like real money: they are insured. You buy them (there's a fee), and sign them once. Then you write all the numbers of the cheques down somewhere and keep that note in another place than the cheques. If you exchange a cheque for money, you sign a second time, the person who takes the cheque can compare the two signatures and knows it's your cheque. If cheques get stolen, you can get the money on them back if you kept the number somewhere. (I haven't had any stolen, so not sure how exactly this works, but it's probably explained on the cheques.) So traveller cheques are a lot safer than just bringing cash.

ATMs: first, ask your own bank back home if you can use your bank card internationally, and what the fees are. Also ask what's the maximum amount you can withdraw in one day, you may need more money in the first days than you can withdraw at once, so that's something to take into account.

Once in China, go to an ATM that takes your card (if there's a logo on the machine that's also on your card, you can use it). Then just withdraw money. Your account will still consist of GBP, but what comes out is an equivalent amount of RBM.

You'll just need to ask the prices of different ways of bringing over your money. If you bring it cash, you'll still have to pay for exchanging it to RMB.

I hope this helps!

[joshuawbb]

Thank you very much for your highly informative reply; from your description I think I'll certainly go with traveller's cheques. They sound safe and less complicated to deal with than an ATM.

I went to my bank and they weren't sure about the fees (maybe I just went on in a bad day); they told me they just wouldn't know about fees in China. I'll go in again, but I'm fairly set on traveller's cheques anyway. Once again a very big thank you for your excellent and detailed description

I'm still a little confused about the health check though; I'm trying to measure the advantages of getting it in the UK vs. China. From people's experiences it's been fine to go to the London embassy without the check done, but I'm worried about travelling all the way up there in the event of being rejected somehow.

My Chinese friend told me that someohe she knew was fine with doing the check here in the UK for rather cheap, and told me it should always be performed before going.

Ah...decisions

[abcdefg]

Your question is long, and I can't address all of it. But yesterday in Kunming I withdrew 2,500 RMB from a local ATM using one of my USA MasterCards. That is counted by MasterCard as a "cash advance" and is not as economical as using your own bank's debit card. Nonetheless, my 2,500 RMB cash in hand cost me $356 USD plus an $11 USD service charge. I could do the same thing tomorrow if I had to.

I’m certainly not suggesting that this is the most efficient way to handle your finances. In fact it’s sort of a worst-case scenario. But even at that, I was not hurt too bad. I guess I’m trying to reassure you that your problem has many solutions and even one of the least elegant ones is relatively OK.

Edited April 18, 2009 at 10:28 AM by abcdefg
reduce confusion

[joshuawbb]

Ouch, that service charge seems quite a lot, but I guess I would expect it though. Your exchange rate seemed rather reasonable though - going by xe.com you got about $10's worth less than the rate of that day, although it has been varying a lot recently still.

Thank you for telling me that experience of yours; at least now as you said, the problem has many different solutions.

[abcdefg]

Ouch, that service charge seems quite a lot, but I guess I would expect it though. Your exchange rate seemed rather reasonable though - going by xe.com you got about $10's worth less than the rate of that day, although it has been varying a lot recently still.

Yes, it is a lot. Convenience is often expensive. Again, I'm not suggesting this is the best way to do it. I'm just giving you a data point to help you make your own analysis and decisions instead of “Well, I heard from a friend about three years ago who said someone told him that he thought thus and so if he remembered it right."

Edited April 20, 2009 at 01:42 AM by abcdefg
run-on sentence

[LaoZhang]

I'm also researching the best way to get $USD into RMB.

See if you have any banks in your country that have a relationship with a Chinese bank.

For example, back in 2006, Bank of America and China Construction Bank established a deal allowing free ATM transactions and free wire transfers.

The ATM transactions are limited to daily limits, typically 2500 RMB or 4500 RMB depending on the particular ATM.

I could pull 2500-4500RMB per day directly from my BofA account using my BofA ATM card with no transaction fees. Of course the banks probably make something by giving me a lesser exchange rate, but you're going to pay one way or another. The rate isn't bad; I've done this quite a few times.

For the wires, you can wire up to a limit of $1,500 USD to China per month in up to 2 transactions without any wire fee (typically $40). Anything over that will cost you $40. Example, transferring $250each time, 3 times in a month = over the limit. You only get 2 transactions. Or transferring $1,600= over the limit. I haven' wired any money just yet.

Not sure what customs/tax implications there might be, if any at all.

Hope that helps somebody.

[peekay]

Keep in mind that with most credit cards, cash advances start accruing interest immediately, instead of from when the next bill is due. I.e., there is no "grace period" unlike regular purchases. Most credit cards also charge a higher interest rate for cash advances (often 10% to 15% APR higher than your normal interest rate.) So unless you quickly pay off your cash advances, the total charges could be very high.

I'd go with the Travellers Cheques. Many banks will offer them to you commission free. When exchanging them for RMB here in China you'll have to pay a service fee (same as cash), but you will often get a better exchange rate. So not only the cheques are safer, but they're also potentially cheaper to carry than cash.

Health check: it's fine to do it in China. Many people do it abroad mainly because they don't trust the Chinese medical system, or because they want to know of any possible medical issues before they leave their home country (which isn't a bad idea.) But you don't have to complete your health check before arriving in China.

JW202 amendment: no need to tell them of the address change; that will just complicate things for you. Welcome to China.

[joshuawbb]

Thanks again everyone for your imformative replies; I've been a little clueless about it and I really appreciate the input.

Using a credit/debit card seems like a lot of limits and possible fees, so I'll go with the traveller's cheques. Ah, I need to try and get as much money as I can. I'm not in a financially bad situation but still as a student I should try my best to support myself.

Thanks again, I'll go to London sometime this week for the visa. I tried to call them multiple times and found that since June (?) 2008, the embassy no longer accepts direct applications (as someone told me in my other thread too), so the "Chinese Visa Application Service Centre"/CVASC handles them now.

When I called them their machine told me I should bring the health form, but from what peekay said maybe I'll go and risk it.

Thanks again

[Shadowdh]

Just to throw a spanner in the works it might be worth using your bankcard/ATM card... I took travellers cheques the first time I went and really wish I hadnt due to the hassle of finding a bank that could change them and so forth, the next time I took what I needed to pay for fees and so forth with me and left the rest in the bank... I had no troubles using my bank card and the fees were less than the fees for travellers cheques... I just made sure I didnt withdraw everyday by forward planning/thinking... ICBC pretty much takes most cards... If you bank with Lloyds or Halifax in the UK I know their cards work...

[michael289]

Using ATMs anywhere is pretty straight forward. The standard fee for overseas withdrawls if you're with a UK bank is £1.50. So you withdraw 1000 Yuan and this will appear on your bank statement as:

1000 CNY @ 0.100 GBP -£100

Service Charge -£1.50

It's pretty cost-efficient of you are withdrawing large amounts as the fee is very small in proportion the transaction size. However for regular use it can become quite costly.

One UK bank offered free overseas withdrawls, this was Nationwide Building Society, but I have heard they have started charging a fee of 1%.

Probably your best bet is to open a bank account in China if possible and transfer your money in bulk, then use this for your day-to-day living. Also sign up for online banking with your home bank so you can keep on top of your finances from China without the hassle.

Hope this helps.

[peekay]

Unfortunately the total charges are not that straightforward. There are many fees which could be "hidden" from you. E.g.:

• The foreign bank which owns the ATM machine may charge you a fee
  
• You may get charged a "foreign transaction fee"
  
• You may get charged a separate "currency exchange fee"
  
• You may get charged an additional "cash-advance" fee (if using a credit card)
  
• The foreign bank could give you a worse exchange rate compared to cash
  

These fees are all in addition to the bank's non-network "service charge". Each of them could be zero, a flat-rate, or a percentage of the total transaction.

You might not even realize you're being charged all these fees because they are not typically itemized. They're usually "consolidated" within a withdrawal line item in the bank statement. The fees will vary with each foreign bank / local bank combination, so it's difficult to exactly predict beforehand how much you're going to get charged. Plus banks change their fees all the time.

Most people (me included) will use their foreign debit/credit cards for convenience, regardless of the underlying cost. But it's good make an informed choice.

As michael289 points out, frequent foreign ATM use is probably not a good idea.

[jacki]

When I was in China, I ended up opening a bank account at a Chinese bank and having the majority of the contents of my US bank account wired over. It ended up being a complicated process, but I think that my very limited Chinese hindered the process more than any actual difficulty. When the money was wired over, it was in my account as $USD, and I had to exchange it all to RMB. When you do this, they tell you to keep the receipts if you ever want to change them back into $USD. DO NOT LOSE YOUR RECEIPTS, haha. I ended up misplacing mine and that's just a fun story for another day.

A lot of people I know opened accounts with Bank of China, because the branches are everywhere, but I also have a fun story with them (it involves my home bank messing something up and then the BoC confiscating my ATM card) so I opened my account with China CITIC Bank. I am not sure how large that chain is, but there was one four minutes down the street from me in Tianjin, and everyone there was fantastically nice and helpful.

It was nice having at ATM card from a Chinese bank though - you can use any ATM (the only one near me that took foreign ATM cards seemed to be inside the Carrefour) and it makes the possibility of losing the ATM card less of a hassle than it would be were you to lose your American one.

[james_moat]

I would recommend Nationwide building society in the UK. I have both credit-card and visa debit flex current account with them. Both are free for transactions abroad (ie: you swipe your card in a restaurant,) and the current account visa debit card also gives a generous exchange rate, and currently has no charges for taking money out of ATM, which is good.

The credit-card is like any credit-card, you pay to take money out abroad, although it is free to take the money out, they levy a high interest amount for taking cash out of an ATM with it, so don't do that.

The charges mentioned which will start applying from May are only the Visa charge which Nationwide have, up to this time, absorbed. From May this will be 1% from memory - I have actually checked with Visa, and this is the standard charge they use through banks, so really Nationwide still aren't taking any 'cut' of money yet! With Nationwide offering one of the best exchange rates of any UK bank this is still the best deal I can find.

If I were you I would get both the credit-card and flex-account, and electronically transfer money from your current bank to the Nationwide account as and when required. Keep your money in a savings account for now, if you can find a one with a good offer.

Also, use ICBC - from experience their ATMs do not charge you an ICBC-fee for taking your cash out in China. Here is the summary from Nationwide's website:

"We will start to pass this fee onto you from 6 May 2009 on credit card and from 1 June 2009 on debit card and it will be included in the sterling amount shown on your statement.

The fee is currently 0.84%. From 1 July 2009 this fee will increase to 1%."

[roddy]

With Nationwide offering one of the best exchange rates of any UK bank this is still the best deal I can find.

I think Abbey and the Post Office have credit cards that are better, but obviously you have the issues with cash withdrawals. Moneysavingexpert.com has a summing up of the best cards for use overseas and the pros and cons of each.

[joshuawbb]

Thanks again everyone for this wealth of information; it's very helpful to me and my decision feels much more informed now. My plan is to arrive with traveller's cheques of a substantial portion of my savings, or perhaps all of it - not sure. I'll set up an account there, deposit the money and presumably it'll be okay for my parents to wire money from home.

[Simon_CH]

I will do exactly the same Joshua when I come here! But additionally I would bring a smaller amount of cash with me for the first few days/weeks until I get round to go to a bank and change the TC's.

I haven't been to China yet, but have travelled much of Asia, and TC's always get a better exchange rate than cash, for obvious reasons: Banks don't have to keep foreign currency, but can simply check in the TC's. In India and Thailand that was quite a substantial difference, so much so that it was still cheaper than bringing in all cash, even considering the initial TC buying fee at my Swiss bank and the fee per TC at the local bank. Very hassle-free if you find banks that take them. (Every bank and currency changer in S Asia and SE Asia, not sure about China?) Bring your passport, sign twice and you're done. But then for everyday usage it's not too convenient, so despositing all at a local bank and use their free ATM was my choice in Thailand too. But don't forget to get big travel cheques! Don't know what's the highest one, but you pay a fee per cheque, therefore having too many of them isn't great.

[Lu]

I mostly agree on TC's, but if we're talking about all of Asia I'd like to warn people that one gets very bad exchange rates for traveller cheques in euros in Taiwan (paid about E10 to exchange E100). Not relevant to the OP, but perhaps to others.

[troysmith]

I don't see this being mentioned yet but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_ATM_Alliance

If you live in the UK, get a Barclays account, if you live in the US, get a BofA account. You can then withdraw money at China Construction Bank without having to pay an extra fee.

[woliveri]

Yeah, I agree with LaoZhang,

First time I went I opened an HSBC free checking account and withdrew from that account in Shanghai. Later, I canned the HSBC account and used my BOA card as mentioned. Also, I had no problem carrying cash. If you carry yourself right and keep your wallet in your front pocket I don't think you'd have a problem. Just put your cash in a Chinese bank once your there and you're golden.

Let me add that Traveler's Checks were a large pain in the tookass. I did that on my first trip and it was a pain. Now I just carry cash and my BoA card.