Where to start?

[miataka]

Hi guys,

I'm sure you have all seen this question several times and I would first like to apologise for asking if it at all offends/annoys certain people.

A bit about myself. Basically, I'm what you would call a BBC (British Born Chinese) and have lived in Britain all of my life. I am thinking of going to China sometime next year but I know zero Mandarin/Cantonese etc. So I'm just wondering if anyone in this community can point me in the right direction as to where I should begin.

I have searched for tutors in the UK and the only ones I have found are either University courses or are not local to where I currently live. So my options are pretty limited... It looks like I'm going to have to teach myself for the time being, so any book recommendations, tapes, dvd's, anything, would be really appreciated.

I look forward to hearing from you guys

Many thanks!

[Don_Horhe]

Since you're a total beginner, I'd strongly advise against learning it all by yourself. You're bound to form bad habits, be it in terms of pronunciation, writing or whatever, which are very hard to change later on. IMO you'd better wait until you find someone who can teach you - once you've mastered the basics (takes 1-2 years, depending), you can go ahead and teach yourself, but that still won't be yield the same results as having a real teacher. Anyway, that's just what I think. Good luck!

[renzhe]

Do you have any family who speak Chinese?

It could give you a head-start on pronunciation.

[yersi]

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[stelingo]

Is there a chinese community centre or Chinese Sunday school in your area? I have just started taking lessons at the local community centre in Manchester. Also very inexpensive, £5 for 2 hours.

[anonymoose]

I think you can teach yourself, although you will need help with pronunciation if you don't have the basics. I also recommend the Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook by Yip-Po Ching and Don Rimmington, that yersi mentioned. If your objective is to actually become competent in Chinese rather than know just enough to get by, then I'd definitely start from a solid grammar book rather than a lot of the, in my opinion, useless phrase books that you can find in most UK bookshops.

[miataka]

Thanks guys

My mum speaks Chinese however she works full time and has a part time job so I don't really get much time with her independently so it would be painfully slow to learn things from her, but I guess it's a start.

The only other family members I know are actually still over in China, so unless I can find some way of contacting them (maybe Skype?) then I'm not sure. I'm not even sure if they speak English, so that might be a problem too.

I'll try and take a look for a community centre like you mentioned

When I finish my University degree, are there any programs similar to JET that I could do at all? Go over to China, teach English but also learn Chinese in my free time? Would love to do that, but I haven't really researched this option much at all...

Many thanks!

[lokki]

Stay away from Audio+CD courses as they are pretty much all worthless.

I can't understand this advice. I'd say don't bother with anything that doesn't include audio. Most of it won't be much use until you get to a good basic level with pronunciation. Grammar books apart of course but I am not so sure they are very useful in the beginning either.

As it happens I got both grammar books, Basic and Intermediate by Yip Po-Ching and Don Rimmington early on when I was starting out, and I agree that they are good, but during the first two years or so I just didn't have enough basic knowledge to make good use of them.

Hunting around on the net will turn up lots of material. Chinesepod, Melnyks podcasts, iMandarinpod etc.

Having a tutor is better, but it can be done on your own too. I am doing it on my own and I am getting there even if it is slow going at times.

[renzhe]

My mum speaks Chinese however she works full time and has a part time job so I don't really get much time with her independently so it would be painfully slow to learn things from her, but I guess it's a start.

Maybe she can't be a perfect tutor, but she can still offer incredible help with pronunciation. You can learn from a textbook, but ask her to help with pronunciation frequently, have her correct you often and help you get the right sounds. Correct pronunciation (especially tones) is extremely important in the beginning and a native speaker is priceless at this stage.

What is her native dialect? Most textbooks out there and most courses are geared towards learning Mandarin. There is some material out there for Cantonese too, with other dialects you're basically out of luck.

[anonymoose]

As it happens I got both grammar books, Basic and Intermediate by Yip Po-Ching and Don Rimmington early on when I was starting out, and I agree that they are good, but during the first two years or so I just didn't have enough basic knowledge to make good use of them.

What basic knowledge do you need to use the "Basic Chinese" book? It starts right from the beginning of what you need to know. Learning pronunciation and how to write characters (stroke order) will require other resources also, but I don't understand what it is you need to know before using that book

Anyway, I can only speak for myself, but that was the first book I used, starting literally from zero knowledge of chinese, and it gave me the solid basis on which I've built myself up to today. In my opinion, there's no better book to start with.

[As for learning to write, there are plenty of websites, such as www.nciku.com that show stroke order with animations. And as for pronunciation, likewise, there are many websites, and audio resources, but I really think that to learn pronunciation properly, you need to be face to face with a native speaker, at least initially.]

[mirgcire]

I think Pimsleur is a great way to start. Pimsleur is an all audio course for beginners. I used Pimsleur for one year without the benefit of a teacher or a class. The results amazed me. During that year I traveled to China several times for work and each time I could communicate more and more. After I worked my way through all 45 CDs, I decided to take a class, learn writing, grammar, conversation, etc.

There two problems with Pimsluer: it is only audio and it is expensive. I wish that it had come with a book because I think my progress would have been faster. But Pimsluer is the best course I can think of if you want to jump in without a teacher. All the text books and websites out there are too accelerated (in my opinion) to be anything more than frustrating for self study.

[flameproof]

Forget courses and teach yourself. It's way more efficient then any course.

I suggest you get the Pimsleur Mandarin CDs. Their Level I, II + III will leave you as a beginner, but one with a very good idea how to pronounce.

For the characters you can check "Chinese Breeze", they are good a simple readers for beginners - and come with MP3 CDs too.

For grammar, ignore it, it's a waste of time. Just copy what you hear and build from there.

And never worry about errors, most Chinese are not Mandarin native speakers.

[miataka]

Thanks for all the information guys, I'll see if I can find any of the books mentioned at the local library before I spend some of my money ^.^

I've been doing a little research of my own and came across the Beijing Language and Culture University. This has got me all hyped up! D any of you happen to know if this University is any good? Would I be able to join one of the Chinese language degree courses?

One thing I'm not to sure on is whether or not I have to be able to talk a little Chinese in order to be considered a placement... can anybody help me out here and let me know the requirements?

Many thanks!

[renzhe]

Try a tag search for BLCU here on the forum, there are thousands of threads with all sorts of information.

[lokki]

As it happens I got both grammar books, Basic and Intermediate by Yip Po-Ching and Don Rimmington early on when I was starting out, and I agree that they are good, but during the first two years or so I just didn't have enough basic knowledge to make good use of them.

What basic knowledge do you need to use the "Basic Chinese" book? It starts right from the beginning of what you need to know. Learning pronunciation and how to write characters (stroke order) will require other resources also, but I don't understand what it is you need to know before using that book

The grammar-book approach which aimed for a comprehensive handling of each structure, with several examples to illustrate all possible variations, was too daunting for me to handle in the beginning. At that stage I just needed one way of saying each thing. Having half a dozen variations, with a number of examples of each one, would just be too much to handle and confuse me and paralyze my progress. There was a lot of new vocabulary, and unknown hanzi that I would have to struggle with on top of the actual grammar knowledge.

Grammar is one of the few aspects that are fairly simpe in Chinese anyway. The few basics that you pick up as you go along studying normal textbooks or courses is quite enough in the early stages before you start feeling the need for a more systematic coverage.

Anyway, I can only speak for myself, but that was the first book I used, starting literally from zero knowledge of chinese, and it gave me the solid basis on which I've built myself up to today. In my opinion, there's no better book to start with.

Same here. I am speaking based on my own learning experience. Different learning styles maybe.

I certainly think grammar is important, and sadly underrated at times, but I can't imagine myself using a grammar book as my main learning resource. It must be a pretty unusual way of going about things. Good for you If it worked in your case.

[yersi]

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[flameproof]

I agree that self study is for the motivated. But isn't any learning for the motivated? Without motivation not much learning will take place.

With my suggested method you should spend about 50% of time. The other 50% just listen to the radio, watch TV, browse Chinese stuff. If you do classroom study I would set that at 10% - and do 90% other Chinese related stuff as classroom study is way less efficient.

Always keep in mind that ANY single method will not really bring you far. Pimsleur is really good, but it's way way too basic. Chinese Breeze will really boost your reading ability amazingly fast, but you may struggle listening to the same content.

A good balance of everything is the key, and lots of it. 4hr per week in one go are useless. 5 Minutes twice a day are much better.

Just do what you think is right, if you don't remember the next day then it wasn't that good.

[miataka]

I've actual tried finding those Chinese Breeze books and only found them on studychineseculture.com - for really good prices :o. However, whats with the shipping?

I don't particulary want to wait 2 months for books to enter the UK, and paying 450% more on top of the total fee is a big no no... Has anyone from the UK ordered from this website? Which shipping option is ideal in terms of cost and delivery time? If not, can anyone point me to another site that sells these books?

But yeah, at the moment, I'm just going to self teach myself with help from my mother from various books you guys have all mentioned. When I have finished my current course in school, I might then consider taking a course at BCLU - seems like a nice place and it would be nice to get away from the UK for a bit

[gato]

I've been doing a little research of my own and came across the Beijing Language and Culture University. This has got me all hyped up! D any of you happen to know if this University is any good?

BLCU specializes in teaching foreigners Chinese and thus has a much larger percentage of foreign students than other schools. Try Beijing Normal University (a teacher's college), where the foreign student population is much less. You'll have more of a chance to interact with Chinese students.

See these threads:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=55362#post55362

Beijing Normal University (aka 北京师范大学)

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=115284#post115284

What's the deal with BNU

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/12935-beishida-bnu

BeiShiDa (BNU)

[imron]

Books in China are cheap - unfortunately books are also heavy and shipping is calculated by weight hence the disproportionate cost of postage. You'll probably find that it still works out cheaper.

The owner of studychineseculture.com is a member of the forums and many people here have bought books through them and can recommend them.