就行(jiù xìng) versus 才行(cái xìng)

[suika]

Hello there, first post from a new member. Hope everything adheres to the rules.

I came across 就行(jiù xìng) and 才行(cái xìng) in Chinese class today, and I'm having a little trouble getting my head around what exactly they mean and how they're used.

I have a couple of example sentences to work with, and I'm hoping someone would be kind enough to perhaps provide a translation and explanation for how 就行 and 才行 are used and how they differ. I'm thinking something along the lines of ease and difficulty?

Anyway, here are the example sentences:

我们来得及，你骑自行车来就行了。

我们来不及了，你坐出租车来才行。

这个容易的问题问我就行，那些难的问题问老师才行。

借书有学生证就行了，换钱有护照才行。

Many thanks in advance.

[Ch_X_En]

If there is only one solution that works and you have no choice but adopt this solution, we use "才行".

When we use "就行", it hints the problem is not so triky, very simple solution can solve it. And there may be more than one solutions.

[renzhe]

Yeah, in short:

就行 = doing X is sufficient

才行 = doing X is necessary

And I think it should be xíng.

[suika]

Ah, okay, so it's necessary conditions vs. sufficient conditions.

That makes a lot of sense, many thanks to the both of you!

[anonymoose]

Firstly, note that 行 is 2nd tone xíng

You can think of 就行 as 'You only need to ___, and that's enough to achieve what you want to achieve'

eg.: 我们来得及，你骑自行车来就行了。

We have enough time. Come by bicycle, and then it's OK. (No need to rush - don't bother taking a taxi.)

You can think of 才行 as 'You need to ___, and only then can you achieve what you want to achieve'

eg.: 我们来不及了，你坐出租车来才行。

We don't have enough time. Only if you come by taxi will it be OK. (You need to rush - coming by bicycle isn't quick enough.)

[suika]

Thanks very much guys, that's a real help!

So in other words, it's sufficient conditions vs. necessary conditions.

anonymoose: Thanks for noting the tone mistake, I guess the moral of the story is to not use automatic pinyin generators!

[renzhe]

So in other words, it's sufficient conditions vs. necessary conditions.

In this context, yes.

就行 is often used when asked to make a decision that is not really important and you don't care. E.g.:

- Where should I put this package?

- Oh, if you drop it down next to the door 就行

- When should I return this book?

- Oh, give it to me next week 就行

Sorry for the English sentences, no Chinese input right now.

[HashiriKata]

From the preceding posts, the distinction between 就 and 才 doesn't seem to pose much of a problem. However, I came across an example in which the distinction between the two seems blurred to me:

a) 一看下文他就知道是怎么回事。

(As soon as he read what followed, he understood what had happened)

B) 一看下文他才知道是怎么回事。

(As soon as he read what followed, he understood what had happened)

1. Does anyone one think the two sentences mean the same thing (as reflected in the accompanying English translation), or do you think the translation for example b should be something like "Only when he read what followed that he understood what had happened" to reflect the distinction made above?

2. Does example b sound natural to native speakers? (We learners are more familiar with the pattern " 一..., 就..." as in example a.)

[roddy]

That wouldn't happen to be a nciku example, would it?

[HashiriKata]

Yes, I saw it in nciku and that got me thinking. So you don't think example b is credible?

[roddy]

It does read odd, though I suspect it's within the range of native speaker utterances. I don't rate it very highly as an example of 才 as contrasted with 就, though, and the two English translations being the same is a bit daft.

[Ch_X_En]

Example b is a natural Chinese sentence, it hints "he didnt know what happened until he read what followed"

[Hanlink]

I would say that example b is a naturally sloppy Chinese example!

[HashiriKata]

Thank you everyone for clarfying (and confirming my doubt ). So, I'm now pretty sure that

一看下文他才知道是怎么回事。

(As soon as he read what followed' date=' he understood what had happened)[/quote']would be better rephrased as:

直到看下文（的时候）他才知道是怎么回事。

(Not until he read what followed that he understood what had happened)

谢谢！

[Guoke]

I think '一看下文他才知道是怎么回事。 ' is better.

'直到看下文（的时候）他才知道是怎么回事。' is 怪怪的.

It might be better to rephrase the sentence to '看到下文他才知道是怎么回事。'

[HashiriKata]

'直到看下文（的时候）他才知道是怎么回事。' is 怪怪的.

Dare you say !

[Guoke]

...or maybe： 直到他看了下文（的时候） 才知道是怎么回事。

[vampire]

看了下文后 他才知道是怎么回事