General Forums Reorganization - your thoughts, please . . .

[stephanhodges]

The only issue I have with restructuring is that this will "loose" all the Google search capability for months, while indexes are rebuilt to new locations, etc. (It's my understanding that Google indexes the most recent stuff quickly, but takes much longer to go in depth, based on comments from other web sites -- could be totally wrong).

So, this would also affect rankings (at least for a while), I think. Not sure how important that is, but perhaps you'd want to capture the top 100-1000 entry searches and redirect those (can you automate this?)

Why not send out a newsletter and see how much feedback you can stir up

[roddy]

The actual urls for the topics won't be changing. There'll be some changes in forum listing urls where I'm having to make new forums, but where possible I'm reusing the old ones - ie the current grammar forum is using the same url as the old grammar + vocabulary one. Or maybe the vocab forum is, but either way. We submit a sitemap to Google daily, and he's pretty good about reading it.

I may well do one of my rare mailshots to the entire membership once I'm done.

[roddy]

Ok, I think I'm done with the first stage of this. If you take a look at the forums listing you can see the changes. So far I'm only done with the Learning Chinese section - I haven't worked any further down. I've split the quick translations bit off into a new category, as it jarred a bit under 'Learning Chinese' and I can't move it down as it needs to be highly visible as that's where so many new members post (before scarring themselves and never coming back).

I've tried to make it more easily scannable by removing the word 'Chinese' from the start of every line, and also deleting the explanatory texts below each heading. Basically if it's not intuitive enough without the text, it's not intuitive enough with it. However I have added in links to any subforums, and I've made some sections (the Chinese corner (cough cough, use it please), the new characters and pronunciation bits) subforums, in order to make sure that whole 'learning Chinese' listing fits on one screen.

The computing section has disappeared, with those posts now in. . hang on, what did I call it . . .Resources for Studying Chinese.

Would appreciate opinions on how this is looking. I understand it's not necessarily easy for regular users, who as I've said click on new posts and don't even notice which forums topics are in, to comment, but go on, do your best. I have sat a few non-forums users down in front of my laptop to see what they say, and got some useful feedback that way ("What have tattoos got to do with learning Chinese" was one, hence the new one-forum category for that).

[stephanhodges]

I find that the "Textbooks for learning Chinese" in two places is a little confusing, but found that they both go to the same place, so I can "ignore" that.

However, after clicking that, the top menu line was also confusing, and took me a while to notice a second line with a "subforum" branch, especially since it branches from the main folder, and not from the subfolder. (See attached picture)

Probably nothing you can do about that?

[roddy]

How do you mean two places? Are you looking at the category listing (chinese-forums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4 )? I can see that would be confusing, but those category listings are very rarely used. Will see if I can tidy it up though.

I could maybe tidy up that breadcrumb bit, but I'm not sure it's a major issue.

[roddy]

Should be better now?

[Meng Lelan]

roddy can you put Monthly Short Stories under Art and Literature, and make it a sub-forum like Book of the Month is done? The consensus seems to be that Short Stories is going to be functioning exactly the same way as Book of the Month, the only difference being that the readings are not as lengthy as a book.

[roddy]

I'll move it over. Are you sure you want a subforum? It might actually be more visible if you just start topics under Art and Literature.

[gato]

Or you can combine it with "book of the month" subforum and make it "book/story of the month." Having two subforums might be overkill for something that's not going to have lots of new threads (one or two per month?).

[Meng Lelan]

Gato's idea is actually a good one, it didn't occur to me until gato suggested it. Maybe roddy can set up that way?

[roddy]

Ok, I've done that - moved the story discussion into BotM, and renamed that to B&SotM, which is subforum of Art and Literature.

I suspect, incidentally, that the 'otM' bit may be a strategic error, as people will be looking at, eg, Book of the Month Nov 2007, and thinking 'oh, that's too late, can't do that', or looking at a current one and thinking 'can't possibly read that in a month'. Might be better to present it as 'Group Book Reading #1' or something.

[character]

I've tried to make it more easily scannable by removing the word 'Chinese' from the start of every line, and also deleting the explanatory texts below each heading.

Perhaps put explanatory text in hover help?

Also, for ease of scanning, perhaps move the subforums onto the same line as the forum titles:

Reading and Writing Skills (15 Viewing) Subforums: Chinese characters and somewhere to practice your Chinese.

[Lu]

It looks good, really an improvement over the old structure!

Just some of the names are a bit long, imo. 'A place to practice your Chinese' was a bit confusing at first: is this were we discuss where to find people to speak Chinese with? Only then I realized this is the Chinese corner.

And why 'languages and dialects [etc]' and not 'Non-Mandarin Chinese'? I think the old title said it pretty well.

[roddy]

If there's going to be explanatory text, it needs to be there all the time, not appearing just when people hover over it, I think. I'll put it in if needed, but I'd like to figure out what needs explaining first.

Have done what Lu suggested, and am very glad she likes it.

[roddy]

And another thing . . .

While I don't have any plans for the Chinese Culture category, bar maybe some cosmetic changes so it fits in with the rest, I'm open to ideas on things that should be changed. If you've got any suggestions, do pipe up.

Have also made a few topics within Learning Chinese stickies - basically I just looked at the discussions with the most replies and stickied the ones that looked the best candidates. Other suggestions welcome, although I don't want to go sticky-mad.

[Lu]

Can't think of anything for the culture section, but I noticed that you can maybe merge the two announcement forums. One is completely out of use, the other says it's temporary while being the one you actually use. Perhaps you can merge both into one Announcements or Forum Announcements forum, and move it to the top too, so everyone can see the regulations right away. If that's not too drastic.

[Meng Lelan]

I suspect, incidentally, that the 'otM' bit may be a strategic error, as people will be looking at, eg, Book of the Month Nov 2007, and thinking 'oh, that's too late, can't do that', or looking at a current one and thinking 'can't possibly read that in a month'. Might be better to present it as 'Group Book Reading #1' or something.

Mmm hmm. But using numbers seems impersonal. Maybe I'll present each month by the name of the selection we're reading rather than the name of the month.

[atitarev]

Roddy,

an Audio Lounge - is a separate subforum where people request and get audio-recordings in the predefined upload format. Well, this forum already allows uploading audio files. That subforum would be fully dedicated to learners uploading their Chinese readings and to native speakers or advanced learners to record their own recording for questions like "how to pronounce this word?". It all depends on the server limitation and what max size you allow. It could also be used for someone so good as to provide some audio-lessons for beginners. I know it's not perhaps not the easiest option but this is something sought after by most Chinese learners - need to check their pronunciation or hear native speakers say it. I don't want to put an extra burden on Chinese users on this forum, it's purely voluntary. It's just a thought, perhaps you can organise it differently, doesn't have to be the same as in masterrussian.net/. Worth considering?

Also, I'd like to see Chat and Language Exchange separately. The latter doesn't get enough focus and perhaps could be enhanced as a place to find language exchange partners where one language is Chinese. On this forum: sharedtalk.com there are too many Chinese who can't find a person for practicing English. That's true, my own observation on a number of occasions. They could be brought here!

[roddy]

Lu: Yes, that section is also due a clear-up.

Meng Lelan: In three years time 'Story of the Month May 2009' isn't going to look too inviting either. Up to you though.

Atitarev: All that functionality is already in the pronunciation forum, although I'll make it more obvious by adding 'pronunciation samples' to the title. Pronunciation, Pinyin, and Audio Samples, something like that?

I've also already stickied Mandarina's topic suggesting people record themselves (should perhaps also rename it), and I was thinking yesterday I should write up a beginners guide to using Audacity to record a sample and upload it here for comments, and provide a few sample texts that can be used. If anyone happens to beat me to it . . .

[atitarev]

Yes, please add Audio Samples to the title making it:

Pronunciation, Pinyin and Audio Samples.