A little help with a translation

[absurd]

Original text:

Europeans had been trading with the Chinese since the Ming dynasty. The first colony in China was the Portuguese Macau. The Portuguese were the first to trade with the Chinese, but after the 18th century, during the Qing dynasty, the British had become their main trading partners. They had to trade in the city of Guangzhou, because it was the only place where it was allowed for the Europeans to trade.

My approximate translation:

欧洲人从明朝跟中国人交易。第一殖民地在中国是葡萄牙的澳门。葡萄牙人是第一跟中国人交易的，可是十八世纪以后，清朝的时候，英国成为他们的主要贸易国家了。他们得在广州做贸易了，因为那是

唯一的欧洲人的贸易是允许的地方。

I'm sure this is full of errors :-) specifically, I'm not sure how to express "X trades with Y" (so many words for trade, what preposition replaces English "with") and the last sentence I couldn't really figure out how to translate.

Please help me! :-) thank you very much.

Edited April 22, 2009 at 02:24 PM by roddy

[semantic nuance]

Here is my suggestion,

歐洲人從明朝以來就一直與中國人有貿易往來.葡萄牙殖民的澳門是中國最早被殖民的地方. 葡萄牙人是最先與中國人有生意往來的, 但在18世紀之後, 清朝年間, 英國人就變成他們最主要的貿易夥伴. 他們只能在廣州城做生意, 因為廣州城是唯一一處允許歐洲人經商的地方.

Hope it helps!

[studentyoung]

I'm not sure how to express "X trades with Y" (so many words for trade, what preposition replaces English "with") and the last sentence I couldn't really figure out how to translate.

“X trades with Y” in Chinese means X 与Y 通商, according to the contexts above.

Europeans had been trading with the Chinese since the Ming dynasty.

欧洲人从明朝跟中国人交易。

从明朝开始，欧洲人与中国人通商。

In Chinese, we usually put a thing in such a way, i.e. when, where, who, what/how. Usually, when is put at the front of the first sentence in a paragraph, so that readers can have clear idea on things in chronological order, especially when you’re dealing with historical materials.

The first colony in China was the Portuguese Macau.

第一殖民地在中国是葡萄牙的澳门。

中国的第一殖民地是葡萄牙属的澳门。

第一殖民地在中国 doesn’t make enough sense in Chinese.

The Portuguese were the first to trade with the Chinese,

葡萄牙人是第一跟中国人交易的，

葡萄人率先与中国人通商。

but after the 18th century, during the Qing dynasty, the British had become their main trading partners.

可是十八世纪以后，清朝的时候，英国成为他们的主要贸易国家了。

可到了18世纪后的清朝，英国成为其主要贸易国了。

They had to trade in the city of Guangzhou, because it was the only place where it was allowed for the Europeans to trade.

他们得在广州做贸易了，因为那是唯一的欧洲人的贸易是允许的地方。

他们只能在广州做贸易，因为那是中国当时唯一允许与欧洲人通商的地方。

I'm sure this is full of errors :-)

Believe me, no errors, no progresses.

Cheers!

[Guoke]

......鸡婆一下......

Believe me, no errors, no progresses.

'Progress' is an uncountable noun.

[studentyoung]

Believe me, no errors, no progresses.

'Progress' is an uncountable noun.

Thank you so much for pointing out my error and helping me make progress!

Correction: No errors, no progress.

Cheers!

[echo_zkl]

...再挑个刺

The first colony in China was the Portuguese Macau.

中国的第一殖民地是葡萄牙属的澳门。

中国的第一殖民地 is not correct. 澳门不是中国的殖民地，而是葡萄牙的殖民地，是中国第一块被殖民的地方。

I prefer Semantic nuance's way.

[absurd]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to help me! :-)

可到了18世纪的清朝

Is it okay to just use 可 in speech too or is just a kind of written language shorthand for 可是? I've only ever met it where it meant "really".

And is 其 (their) acceptable in oral language? Never seen that before either :-)

Also, the final sentence

因为那是中国当时唯一允许与欧洲人通商的地方

in your translation doesn't it come off as if it was the Chinese people that had the trade restriction put on them, when it's probably more correct to say that it was the Europeans who were restricted to Guangzhou?

Thank you so much for this!

[absurd]

Here's another one:

My translation:

英国人民开始喝很多茶了，要越来越，得在中国买多多。不过，买英国货的中国人不这样买英国货，所以在年初的18世纪由这事出现负貿易餘額给英国。

The stuff I'm supposed to translate:

The British people started drinking a lot of tea, wanted more and more of it, and needed to buy a great deal of it in China. However, the Chinese did not buy British goods in the same manner and this created a big negative balance of trade for Britain in the beginning of the 18th century.

[semantic nuance]

The British people started drinking a lot of tea, wanted more and more of it, and needed to buy a great deal of it in China. However, the Chinese did not buy British goods in the same manner and this created a big negative balance of trade for Britain in the beginning of the 18th century.

英國人開始大量飲茶, 對茶葉的需求越來越大, 因此必須跟中國買進大量的茶葉. 然而, 中國人並沒有對等地買進英國的物品, 這造成了18世紀之初中國對英國出口產生了嚴重的貿易順差 (出超).

Hope it helps!

Edited April 24, 2009 at 03:39 AM by semantic nuance

[studentyoung]

The first colony in China was the Portuguese Macau.

中国的第一殖民地是葡萄牙属的澳门。

中国的第一殖民地 is not correct. 澳门不是中国的殖民地，而是葡萄牙的殖民地，是中国第一块被殖民的地方。

First of all, I must confess that my translation above is not accurate enough. But “是中国第一块被殖民的地方” doesn’t sound like a natural Chinese expression:wink:, in my opinion. I’ll try this sentence again.

The first colony in China was the Portuguese Macau.

中国第一块沦为殖民地的地方是葡萄牙属的澳门。

可到了18世纪的清朝

Is it okay to just use 可 in speech too or is just a kind of written language shorthand for 可是? I've only ever met it where it meant "really".

Cheek this link please. ->

http://cache.baidu.com/c?m=9d78d513d9d431db4f9c9f690c66c0161e43f0152ba6d3020ea48449e36751564616f4ca54356106c4b50d7070d95d1baaae3928714562a09abb955798fed73f2fff766e2b40d51e458f4ce7905125b67cc71cf4d142b7faa372d8b38485800c12924e5d20d4b5d3470016c86af2112ce0ad9b4f025864bbfa3012a51f2877&p=9c7bca1a85cc45ff57eec06d5b&user=baidu

(And I’ve met this kind of expression many times in academic articles.)

可到了18世纪后的清朝，英国成为其主要贸易国了。

And is 其 (their) acceptable in oral language? Never seen that before either :-)

Take a look at these, please.

http://dict.cn/%E5%85%B6.htm

http://cache.baidu.com/c?m=9f65cb4a8c8507ed4fece763105392230e54f7396fc0d062358fcf12d43707160171e3cc767f4f19999f34211caf4b5eebe7360434013db79ad5d91781fdc574699f2040731e8d4714d61fb8cb317f877f841fb4ef4fe8ad804684dfa4c4af2544bc53127bf0e7fa501765ba78f1642693d78e38174861befa4763e858073eef5057c246ee9632797082&p=9278f916d9c313ff57ebc93544&user=baidu

The British people started drinking a lot of tea, wanted more and more of it, and needed to buy a great deal of it in China.

英国人民开始喝很多茶了，要越来越，得在中国买多多。

英国人开始大量喝茶，对茶叶的需求量越来越大，要从中国大量采购。

Usually, 人民 is a word usually with political, diplomatic and ethnical colors.

Example.One of our government’s political slogans is 劳动人民最光荣 laboring people are the most glorious. :mrgreen:

However, the Chinese did not buy British goods in the same manner and this created a big negative balance of trade for Britain in the beginning of the 18th century.

不过，买英国货的中国人不这样买英国货，所以在年初的18世纪由这事出现负貿易餘額给英国。

不过，中国人并未等量等值地购买英国的货物，到了18世纪初，英国的对华贸易出现了很大的逆差。

a negative balance of trade

贸易逆差

http://cache.baidu.com/c?m=9f65cb4a8c8507ed4fece763104c8c711923d030678197027fa3c215cc7905050c21bfff7d714b19839b21321cf40f0bb5ed3c7036062ae199cadb1ddcba97222589703f771ed71742d60eafbc1c639e7e841fb4ef4fe8e6a767c0e88997884353bb035624d3acda0d1714bb32a4033192e0d91b4308&p=8b2a940092b15aff57ed9436475e&user=baidu

Cheers!

[semantic nuance]

中國人並沒有對等地買進英國的物品, 這造成了18世紀之初中國對英國出口產生了嚴重的貿易順差 (出超).

After reading studentyoung's post, I'd like to remind readers that my original post was another way to express the idea. I hope I wasn't confusing people. A negative balance of trade is seen from Britain's side. My traslation was a bit from China's side, namely, a positive balance of trade.

[echo_zkl]

挑刺 again, sorry...

However, the Chinese did not buy British goods in the same manner and this created a big negative balance of trade for Britain in the beginning of the 18th century.

不过，中国人并未等量等值地购买英国的货物，到了18世纪初，英国的对华贸易出现了很大的逆差。

中国人并未等量等值地购买英国的货物feels like chinese guys played a trick on them in the business. I‘d suggest 中国人并未购买等量等值的英国货物

[Guoke]

How about my translation?

可是，中国人却没有如此大量地购买英国的货品…...

[absurd]

Okay, maybe I should mention that this will eventually become a short presentation I'm doing in front of class. I've only been studying Chinese for about half a year, so I'm not comfortable with too much new vocabulary. I'd rather sacrifice the meaning slightly than having too remember all these new words. Thank you for trying, but I don't think the most correct translation is what I'm looking for :-/

Perhaps I can post the whole thing when I'm done with it, sans the English translation, and you guys can help me correct grammar? I would really appreciate that.

[Guoke]

The first colony in China was the Portuguese Macau.

中国第一块沦为殖民地的地方是葡萄牙属的澳门。

My suggestion ...

欧洲人在中国的第一个殖民地是葡萄牙（所侵占）的澳门。

or 在中国的第一个欧洲殖民地是葡萄牙（所侵占）的澳门。

[studentyoung]

挑刺 again, sorry...

echo_zkl, it's not "sorry", but "funny"!

Perhaps I can post the whole thing when I'm done with it, sans the English translation, and you guys can help me correct grammar? I would really appreciate that.

I understand what you mean, absurd. But it's most common case that the gramma is correct while the meaning is a mess or totally another meaning during translating from one language to another for a beginner. I will show you an example,which is a joke.

How /old / are / you? 怎么/老/是/你?

Anyway, have fun guy!

Cheers!