Northeastern Dialect 东北话

[Weskhan]

Hey there, I'll be going to Harbin in early June with the CLS scholarship and I was wondering how the Northeastern Mandarin dialect was different than the standard Mandarin dialect (or maybe the difference between it and Beijing's accent). Wikipedia says this...

"Usually, speakers of Northeastern Mandarin describe the variant that they are speaking as distinct from Standard Mandarin. However, linguists classify Northeastern Mandarin as a form of Mandarin Chinese in a broader sense. While the difference between Northeastern Mandarin and Beijing dialect are not so significant phonologically, Northeastern Mandarin contains many colloquialisms not found in Standard Mandarin."

Also, another site said that vocabulary can be different because of Russian/Manchurian area influence. Is this true and what is different? I need to prepare because I'll be studying Chinese there for 2 months. Thank you!

[Manchu]

Wouldn't worry about it at all. Your Mandarin will actually sound more proper to speakers from outside of Beijing if you study there. Two months shouldn't make any difference on your Chinese, anyhow.

Besides minor vocab differences, you might notice that they speak like they have rocks in their mouths. They also add some variations to pronunciation, like 'xieng' instead of 'xing' (which I find awesome). The local slangs are pretty fun, as well.

[Weskhan]

Gonna have to disagree with you about not having improvement in Chinese in 2 months. Spent only 1 month in Shanghai taking morning 3 hour classes Monday-Friday and my Mandarin improved tremendously.

But thanks for the info. Xing--->Xieng sounds strange though

[renzhe]

I don't think that this should worry you much as a language learner, as most of your learning should be with teachers who speak standard Mandarin anyway.

Dongbei accent is really not bad. It's a bit unclear and fast, but nothing major, IMHO. Every place you go will have some local peculiarities, including Beijing.

[abcdefg]

I spent last Summer in Harbin and found most local speakers easier to understand than the average Kunmingren. Also less of the extra "er" sound one encounters in Beijing.

[Mugi]

But thanks for the info. Xing--->Xieng sounds strange though

This pronunciation is very common (if not standard) in Beijing too, especially when pronouncing a character on its own, or stressing it for some reason - all characters spelled with an "ing" glide from the "i" to a schwa before reaching the "ng" when pronounced in isolation in the Beijing accent.

I have only been to Harbin once, and it was nearly 15 years ago, but my impression was that the language on the street was overall much closer to Modern Standard Chinese (普通话) than that of Beijing, where I was living/studying at the time. I did notice that "ao" would often become "ou" though (so 早 would sound like 走). Everyone used to say 贼 instead of 很 (eg. 贼好 for 很好), but a Harbin friend tells me that this is now considered old fashioned and only used by young people in mocking. I don't recall too many differences in vocab, except the local bread was called 列巴/裂粑, which I believe is an approximation of the Russian word for bread (or at least the type of bread they make in Harbin).

Another phrase that I have just remembered which might be useful if you're a guy is 打兔子, for Beijing's 泡妞儿 (to chase after / pick up girls), although like 贼, it might be outdated too!

[Manchu]

Gonna have to disagree with you about not having improvement in Chinese in 2 months.

Right. Sorry, that's not what I meant to imply. I meant that your accent shouldn't really be affected. As renzhe mentions, your teachers should have decent enough pronunciation. I just don't think it's a long enough time spent in the area to pick up local affectations.

Mugi, is that true about the Beijing schwa? I never heard it while I was there (~5 years ago), at least compared to the northeast.

Weskhan, another habit they have in the north is the 'a'-话. You'll sometimes hear "sha" 啥 instead of "shenme" 什么 and "za" 咋 instead of "zenme" 怎么.

[Weskhan]

Thanks for the all the information, and sorry for the misunderstanding Manchu haha.

[wushijiao]

Weskhan, if you're worried about the accent, one thing you can do is prepare for it a bit. A few years ago, I bought the TV series 東北一家人, which is basically a sitcom about a family in Dongbei. It might be a bit hard to understand. Don't worry. You can find many episodes on tudou, and just find a section of dialogue that you understand (maybe just a sentence or two. You can look at the subtitiiles too). Then, listen to it over and over, and notice some of the differences between Dongbeihua and more standard Mandarin. If you do that many times, perhaps it might help. Although, from my own experience, people in Harbin seem to speak more standard, on average, than just about any other city i can think of.

(Also, singing the theme song of the show is always great for KTV!)

http://so.tudou.com/isearch/%E4%B8%9C%E5%8C%97%E4%B8%80%E5%AE%B6%E4%BA%BA/

[HashiriKata]

Xing--->Xieng sounds strange though

I don't find it strange at all (quite common in fact) and is a useful way to create/ increase the distance between the /_ing/ and /_in/ sounds (such as in xing and xin). Since many Chinese pronounce the two sounds (/_ing/ and /_in/) too similarly, I've actually adopted this /_ieng/ as my way of saying /_ing/.

[stella0022]

I'm from the northeast of china . May be I can give you a hand.

东北话 is just the same as Mandarin chinese. The accent is not a big problem.

The biggest problem are some colloquialisms .

For example:

English： "Turn off the light "

东北话："ba deng bi le"(把灯闭了)

Mandarin chinese：“guan deng”（关灯）

There are some useful expressions,.

English 东北话

What are you doing? ni gan sha ne?(你干啥呢)？

fall down ka daol e （卡倒了）

annoying ge ying ren

（this expression is very important。If you can speake it， they will surprised ）

...

You asked about "another site said that vocabulary can be different because of Russian/Manchurian area influence. "

'd like to tell you that you needn't worry about it.

If you have an further questions you can send me an email.

[atitarev]

Also, another site said that vocabulary can be different because of Russian/Manchurian area influence. Is this true and what is different?

Chinese language is almost immune to foreign influence. Even when some words become common due to a foreign influence, they are normally wiped out by the writing system. Japanese had very little impact on Chinese in Taiwan. Loanwords (excluding personal, geographical, company and personal names) can fit on a small list.

[Weskhan]

Wow all this really helped out a lot. I'll give that sitcom show a look and see if I can understand it haha

Thanks for all the info

[zozzen]

Chinese language is almost immune to foreign influence. Even when some words become common due to a foreign influence, they are normally wiped out by the writing system. Japanese had very little impact on Chinese in Taiwan. Loanwords (excluding personal, geographical, company and personal names) can fit on a small list.

I think you mean "Chinese character", not "chinese language".

Chinese language has been greatly influenced by foreign culture. Loanword can make a big list. Some words like 哲學、主義、共產 and even 時刻 were imported or re-imported from other cultures.. Its grammar is not immune too. 歐化中文 or 日化中文, usually a derogatory term, is a typical example.

[atitarev]

No, I meant, that the number of settled loanwords in Chinese is comparatively low. And it's almost immune, not completely. I should also say that I mean the phonetic borrowings, not the foreign concepts described using Chinese methods.

[HashiriKata]

I know a Chinese person who is (said to be) from 东北. However, I notice that her pronunciation doesn't sound Northern to me. She pronounces /sh/ as /s/, /zh/ as /z/ and /ch/ as /c/, which seems very Southern to me. Does anyone here happen to know of any 东北 area, where people may pronounce the [sh, zh, ch] sounds as [s,z,c]?

[atitarev]

I know a guy from Shenyang, Liaoning. He admitted that he mixes sh/s, etc. Although, to my observation, it was quite mild compared to Southerners' pronunciation.

[gato]

Does anyone here happen to know of any 东北 area, where people may pronounce the [sh, zh, ch] sounds as [s,z,c]?

I've met people from Liaoning who use [sh, zh, ch] where it should be [s,z,c] in standard Mandarin. It seems prevalent enough to be a dialect.

[vampire]

Does anyone here happen to know of any 东北 area, where people may pronounce the [sh, zh, ch] sounds as [s,z,c]?

this is a key characteristic of northeastern dialect

东北人 also pronounce the z/c/s sounds as zh/ch/sh

they switch these two sets of sounds in many characters

[Mugi]

Mugi, is that true about the Beijing schwa? I never heard it while I was there (~5 years ago), at least compared to the northeast.

I'll confess that it's been 15 years since I last lived in Beijing, but it was certainly the case then and I would be very surprised if the situation had changed in the interim. Beijing friends here in Tokyo definitely pronounce "-ing" with a glide to a shwa, although it's usually only detectable to my ears when the word in question is pronounced in isolation or is being emphasized. That said, this pronunciation may not be as "pronounced" as it is in the northeast - having only spent a few days there (东北) and not having any friends from there, I can't really comment.

Try comparing the way a native of Beijing pronounces 行 or 明白 to that of someone further south, but with standard pronunciation (like a state newsreader from Shanghai). The other thing that you have to be sure about is that the person from Beijing is actually from Beijing - even 15 years ago there was a significant number of 外地人; these days they would have to easily outnumber Beijing natives. (And in my experience, anyone from within a 1,000 mile radius of Beijing, or who has spent a few months there, often claims to be a native of Beijing!)

Weskhan, another habit they have in the north is the 'a'-话. You'll sometimes hear "sha" 啥 instead of "shenme" 什么 and "za" 咋 instead of "zenme" 怎么.

This is not a distinctly north(east) phenomenon - it's common throughout native Mandarin speaking areas, whether it be the northeast, Beijing, the midwest or the southwest.