CELTA, worth it?

[neonoodle]

I just returned from studying in China this year. I really enjoyed it and would like to return as soon as possible. I was thinking teaching English and studying on the side would be the best option. The problem is I'm nowhere near getting my college degree. I know a college degree is best, but that would take years and an unrealistic sum of money(that I don't have). One of the colleges here offers a "Cambridge University Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults" course 3 times a year. It's a 4 week course with 40 hours a week of class time. It cost about $3000. I want to do this, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Since the course is a full 40 hours a week, I'd have to quit my job to take it(not like it's a good job anyways). I know from studying in China, that once you're already in China it's not too hard to find a job teaching English under the table.

Would just the CELT be able to get me a real teaching job, that I could get a work visa for?

Would it be more economical to save up for another student visa, and teach under the table on the side?

[roddy]

It's your lack of a degree that's going to be the problem, not the CELTA. I don't know if at the moment it just means you can't get a working visa full stop, or if some employers / locations will overlook it, but suggest you get in touch with some schools and ask - could well be that you're out of luck.

[Senzhi]

Roddy is right. However, that doesn't mean you can't try your luck if you're into it. Just don't expect it to be the most established schools around here.

Regarding CELTA, Trinity, and any other TEFL courses around the globe, I'm still looking for anybody who paid but failed ... business as usual ... and the established schools know this too, which is why they rely more on nationality and degree.

Which isn't fool proof either.

[roddy]

I actually saw these figures on Wikipedia a week or so ago:

The grades awarded are pass, B and A. As of 2000, worldwide five percent of trainees withdrew before completing the course, three percent failed, 63% received a pass, 25% received a grade of B, and four percent received a grade of A.

So that's 8% failing or dropping out, and (kind of surprised by this) 63% getting the bare pass. Can't remember what I got. A high pass rate isn't surprising as it's not rocket science in the first place, but everyone doing it is self-selecting as willing to invest a large chunk of money and a month of time. And those who fail are hardly like to bring it up in conversation.

[neonoodle]

The main issue is the visa. From what I've seen only the major universities require proof of a degree, but they seem to be the only ones giving out work visas. (makes sense) I've seen websites advertise that a CELTA is enough, but I don't trust websites. I mean, for the $3K I spend on getting my CELTA I could easily pay for tuition at a university and get a student visa. In that case, once the semester is over I'll be back to square one. If the CELTA can get me a work visa then I wouldn't have to worry about that.

What I really want is to work & study in China until I can get a degree in Chinese from a Chinese university without incurring much of any debt.

Is it even possible?

[whereishunter]

I would just start emailing/looking for schools and universities that need teachers. There are plenty of places that will employ you with a visa.

You have to remember there is a teacher shortage in most places. If you need any more help/advice just PM me.

Good luck

[roddy]

If what you ultimately want is the degree in Chinese, forget about the CELTA and full-time teaching jobs. First (and maybe you're already there) get your HSK up to 6 or 7 (check with actual universities, I think it's 6) one way or another - self-study, private study, whatever. That will get you into the third year of the four year non-native-speaker orientated Chinese BA programs. Then you've only got another two years to pay for. Part time work during term, maybe summer camps - those kind of jobs will not be so worried about degrees and CELTAs - or whatever other work you can find. CELTA's a red herring in this case.

[kdavid]

I want to do this, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Some schools advertise for teachers saying that they only accept a CELTA or higher, but these schools are a minority.

The same goes for BAs. Many schools will say that they only accept applicants with a BA or higher, but when push comes to shove they'll take a teacher without a BA if he/she has other solid credentials (i.e. good TESOL training, work experience, etc.).

It's your lack of a degree that's going to be the problem, not the CELTA. I don't know if at the moment it just means you can't get a working visa full stop, or if some employers / locations will overlook it, but suggest you get in touch with some schools and ask

Something that's difficult for many people to understand is that in China the rules (laws) apply differently to different people in different places. Therefore, "overlooking" the absence of a BA is quite common place.

Which schools overlook this "requirement" is largely going to depend on the area that you want to go to. Schools in big metropolitan cities such as Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, etc. are inundated with native-speaking foreigners. They, therefore, can afford to be picky. However, a school in a lesser-known area of China to which very few native-speakers travel would be grateful for a young, enthusiastic native-speaker regardless of whether he had a BA or not.

Is this illegal? Certainly not. These schools need teachers, so the government allows teachers without BAs to apply and work, as well as get a work residence permit.

I would just start emailing/looking for schools and universities that need teachers.

This really is your best bet. However, don't just "shrug off" TESOL training. There are plenty of good affordable programs out there that provide quality training and job placement assistance. You wouldn't practice medicine or build a house for your family if you didn't have proper training, so why would you teach without training?

[Senzhi]

Is this illegal? Certainly not. These schools need teachers, so the government allows teachers without BAs to apply and work, as well as get a work residence permit.

Agreed. My school initially wanted to hire me because of my international business experience. Guangzhou officials rejected my application ... simply because of ... "Belgians can't speak English."

So local guanxi can help. Even more than "common sense" sometimes ...

Edited April 29, 2009 at 07:03 PM by Senzhi
Forgot the facial expression ...

[kdavid]

As I've started seeing more and more references to this website pop up, I've decided to start reading through it.

One thing I just came across which pertains to our discussion above on the requirements of foreign teachers in China is summed up quite nicely here:

The guidelines state that a "foreign educational expert," or teacher, "should hold a minimum of a bachelor's degree and more than two years of experience." The work experience does not necessarily have to be in the field of education, but can be in any area deemed appropriate or relevant by the prospective employer. As the SAFEA guideline uses the Chinese character for the word "should," instead of "must have" or "needs to have," there has been a great deal of "flexible" interpretation across provinces regarding the minimum educational requirement over the years. While a bachelor's degree is generally regarded as the de facto minimum educational requirement to legally teach in China, this currently appears to be the exception instead of the rule—although there are many anecdotal reports that this is gradually changing. Certainly, the better paying and more satisfying jobs would only be available to those with a minimum of a bachelor's degree, and, more likely than not, prior teaching experience in one's native country. However keep in mind that the SAFEA regulations are strictly advisory and that each province, autonomous region, and municipality is free to adopt their own rules and procedures for issuing foreign expert certificates and residency permits.

If you don't want to read all of that, here's the part I think most apt:

As the SAFEA guideline uses the Chinese character for the word "should," instead of "must have" or "needs to have," there has been a great deal of "flexible" interpretation across provinces regarding the minimum educational requirement over the years.

Anyone with a bit of experience with contractual Chinese can vouch that this is quite accurate. The Chinese overuse "should" (应该) in their contracts, therefore giving them flexibility in not only "contractual requirements" but also meeting deadlines for payments, housing, etc.