Weird translation of The Analects

[chalimac]

I've found a very weird translation in this Donald Sturgeon's site. It's in the 2nd section of The Analects:

子曰：“君子周而不比，小人比而不周。”

The Master said, "The superior man is catholic and not partisan. The mean man is partisan and not catholic."

"Catholic"? WTF?

[chrix]

I've found a very weird translation in this Donald Sturgeon's site. It's in the 2nd section of The Analects:

子曰：“君子周而不比，小人比而不周。”

The Master said, "The superior man is catholic and not partisan. The mean man is partisan and not catholic."

"Catholic"? WTF?

According to the dictionary, "catholic" also means "univerdal in extent; broad-minded". A different translation uses the phrasing "enter into associations". The idea is the contrast between 周 and 比, the former meaning "open to everyone" and the latter "discriminating".

[fanglu]

The Master said, "The superior man is catholic and not partisan. The mean man is partisan and not catholic."

"Catholic"? WTF?

See how the first ones were 'catholic' and yours was 'Catholic'? Different words. (Although presumably with the same root.)

[chrix]

well originally, there was only one Church, the una sancta... apparently it's a contraction of Greek kata holou, "according to the whole", "universally"

[chalimac]

chrix, thanks for the explanation.

I didn't say it was wrong, just weird. I think it is a term too connotated by its ecclesiastic use. It's James Legge's translation from the 19th century,

[chrix]

yes, but it does get does get used even nowadays, there was a quote from the Scientifc American.

Anyway, one problem of course is that because of copyright issues most of the freely available translations are by people who are long dead. However, if you're dealing with the Analects, there's at least two other English translation available, including the one on this site, where you can also see it in 20 other languages, including Latin and Modern Mandarin: http://www.confucius.org/lunyu/ed0214.htm

Here just the Modern Mandarin version:

孔子說： “君子周全卻不偏私，小人偏私卻不周全”

[chalimac]

Thanks chrix, that link is most helpful.

A more recent translation by Roger T. Ames and Henry Rosemont Jr:

"Exemplary persons associating openly with others are not partisans; petty persons, being partisans do not associate openly with others"