Mandarin / English News Talk - a current events group

[storyline]

Yes! Suggest one. I'll join in too.

[Scoobyqueen]

I am only aware of one daily article that is being read out and is available on Mp3. That article summarises the main news of the day. What about doing one a day if people have the time?

[Scoobyqueen]

I am reading this one today:

28th July 2009

I will post some questions/points later.

[atitarev]

Thanks Scoobyqueen.

The permanent address of the article is:

中美首轮战略与经济对话引关注 中国政府的喀什老区改造计划藏隐忧

Audio

[atitarev]

Some vocabulary.

高级 gāojí high in rank/grade/quality

官员 guānyuán official

开幕 kāimù open; inaugurate (meeting/etc.) 开幕对话 open a dialogue

合影 héyǐng group photo/picture

中美 Zhōng-Měi China and the U.S.A.; Sino-American

首轮 shǒulún preliminary round

战略 zhànlüè strategy

喀什 Kāshí Kashi, Kashgar

老区 lǎoqū old liberated area

改造 gǎizào transform; reform

引 yǐn here: cite, quote

关注 guānzhù follow with interest; pay close attention to

计划 jìhuà plan; project; program

藏 cáng store; conceal, hide

隐忧 yǐnyōu secret worry; lurking dangers

各位 gèwèi you-all; everybody

听众 tīngzhòng audience; listeners

时事 current event/affair

陈昊 Chén Hào

严力 Yán Lì

共同 gòngtóng together, jointly

主持 zhǔchí manage; chair

华盛顿 Huáshèngdùn Washington

[Scoobyqueen]

Here are some of my remarks/questions

与 can you use暨 also?

开幕 – I thought this word was mostly used with 试 (as used further down in text) but the term used here seems strange since it is just a forum. In western papers you probably wouldnt use inaugurated.

引发. Can this be replaced by 引起 and 导致in this context?

战略 here used as adjective. I thought this was only a noun

实属罕见 is this a chengyu or just a fixed expresion?

出席 useful word for press releases/articles reporting on conferences meetings with high level attendance etc (far more formal than参加 and higher level)

气候变化 seems to be word favoured by media rather than全球气候变暖 (although meaning some would argue is slightly different)

议题 –议题 more formal than 话题 (?)

金融体系 – I would prefer 金融体制 for news. Is there a significant different between the two terms?

不难看出 – bit of a cliché?

有利无害 – must be chengyu and useful for other situations

半信半疑 –fixed expression?

[atitarev]

You're ahead of me. Well done! I only read a bit.

与 can you use暨 also?

Yes

开幕 – I thought this word was mostly used with 试 (as used further down in text) but the term used here seems strange since it is just a forum. In western papers you probably wouldnt use inaugurated.

开幕 here means "open". "inaugurate" is just another meaning of the word.

引发. Can this be replaced by 引起 and 导致in this context?

Probably yes. I am not good at synonyms, just happy if I understand the text.

战略 here used as adjective. I thought this was only a noun

That's simple. A noun in front of another noun may become an attribute, like English classroom.

实属罕见 is this a chengyu or just a fixed expresion?

I don't know. I can guess it means "really rare".

...

Time to go to bed. Sorry, a long day

[Scoobyqueen]

Thanks Atitarev for putting together the vocabulary list and also for answering the questions.

Should we continue with the next article?I have 1.5 hours to kill on my train journey to work so I use the time for articles such as these. (tomorrow though I am attempting yet again to go the full 140 km by bicycle but I have never quite made it yet :-( a bit like learning Chinese you have a goal but you never quite reach it.

[atitarev]

I may have more time later. Will try to work on this particular article. I am behind you. Tonight I will have a Japanese class. Do you listen to Chinese audio when you cycle? 加油！

[Scoobyqueen]

I couldnt find the article from 29th July so I read this one instead:

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/chinese/articles/s2637854.htm

I may post some comments later. They are basically just questions I have noted down. You are very busy with learning! How do you squeeze it all in?

I dont listen to Chinese when I cycle anymore.( I have an additional bike ride after the train journey every day) as it is too dangerous - unfortunately as it would be time well spent. Instead I am burning additional energy cursing at German car drivers!

[Scoobyqueen]

re article above, some thoughts:

引起 still have the same questions as above. 引发，导致. I know 导致 is for negative outcomes.

撤回: I have seen 撤出 used for withdrawing troops I wonder if these two words have

the exact same meaning. I suspect 撤出 is stronger. Incidentally for withdrawing support or a benefit I have often seen 取消

攻击 not quite sure how this word would be best translated in this context:

周末又传出这个电影节的网站遭到来自中国黑客的攻击。

I am also not sure how this phrase would translate into English.

高级别 not seen this before with 别 just 高级 is there a grammatical point here? or maybe 高级 is slightly different in meaning

这项会议开幕式 does the measure word refer to 开幕式? normally wouldnt it be 届for 会议?

致辞 - does this mean do the welcome speech or is it straightforward to address the meeting (this can be done at anytime whereas welcome speech can only occur first)

设立 I can never remember the differences between various words for "set up" and "established".is 设立 and 成立 used for setting up something intangible like department and 建立 for a company and a country (although they are also somewhat intangible? I once heard the explanation and now I have forgotten 还给老师了！

[Scoobyqueen]

Today I am reading this article. Please feel free to comment.

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/chinese/articles/s2640130.htm

Take a look at the photograph. Doesnt the American just look like a contrast to the smiling Chinese finance minister. Incidentally, some Chinese think that the US is envious at China’s growing economy.

(PS I never made it more than 12 km on my bike ride. The so-called specialist bike shop owned by former tour de france rider sold me the bloody wrong inner tube and the inevitable happened. consequently spent 2.30 hours on the train seething)

Edited July 30, 2009 at 08:35 AM by Scoobyqueen

[Scoobyqueen]

comments on article above below

Trivia. I think Chinese women find Ma Ying Jiu attractive.

Comments below are thoughts and questions I have. As I sometimes have to write to media, my comments are mainly geared towards language use rather than contents.

Anyone please feel free to comment or even rubbish the observations 

对话 is the term for „dialogue“. “talks“ is often used to refer to this meeting although the official name is Dialogue. What would be used in Chinese to refer to „ talks“ then?

承诺 – here this is used more in the sense of a commitment rather than promise as often given as translation. Promise would also not be the right word in English journalism.

I am not sure how this phrase translates into English两国承诺将维持当前提振金融市场的举措，旨在带动全球经济走出衰退

In part due to the word 振 : does it belong to the the adjacent character?

谅解备忘录 fixed expression for Memorandum of Understanding

不断上升的持续忧虑 – this sentence makes use of emphasis though 不断 and 持续 combined. Nice journalism.不断.. – often used in media/formal speech as variation on „continue to“ and emphasises the point more strongly. It can be used for positive things too. In this context used also because the word 持续。持续 is also more formal but can also be interchanged with 继续the less formal version also used in this text further down.

维持 it seems this word is favoured over 保持 by the media. 维持 tend to also be used more in fixed expression such as “maintain social stability”, although the保持 occurs occasionally also to refer to that.

新能源 – a word that will probably be used more and more as the search for energy solutions becomes broader and bioenergy more controversial. Renewable energy (chinese?) and bio energy 生物能 are currently widely used but have different meanings.

意见一致 useful and safe phrase that conveys agreement whilst, I suppose, still being a bit eloquent about (?)

一个平台 is there not a proper measure word for this rather than 个? Anyway the平台 meaning platform can be used for exhibitions, meetings, conferences etc and is useful for press releases and speeches.

位置 – thought this word was mainly used for tangible things. Anyway it appears to be a better version than 地位, the word often used about a market position. Could 职能 also have been used here? Full phrase reads:

奥巴马总统和胡主席承诺将把中美战略与经济对话放在中美双边关系的中心位置

许多is very often used in journalism for „a lot“ rather than 很多. Another word used often by the media is 诸多 meaning „a number of“ and 大量 being more common meaning a great number of.

铺路 – useful phrase „pave the way“

乃至 – „and even.. is the word 甚至synonymous?

这一框架 useful word for framework. However i am wondering why no mw used. It happens in other phrases like throughout the text. Do you need the measure word when you use”这一…“?

I like this phrase:

好消息是这种形式的会谈会促进双方采取具体措施应对具体问题. Comment: 采取措施 is a fixed phrase for taking measures and is used a lot by the media. 促进 „to encourage“ is also often used in formal phrases especially about the government promoting something (there are quite a few words for „encourage“ and „promote“ incidentally )

极化的格局 how would this translate into proper English?

一损俱损 – chengyu or fixed expression?

一泻千里 I guess this is a chengyu, with a bit of creativity it nearly sounds like what it means yī xiè qiān lǐ “flowing”

独夫 anyone got a good translation for this word. Context is: ”，马英九现在的确集党政军于一身，他现在几乎是台湾政治的唯一一个强人，但是有两点，我并不害怕他会变成一个“独夫”。

The speech by Geithner heard in the background sounds so arrogant (both voice and enunciation) and the pause between we are not always going to agree with China….on economic issues sounds nearly deliberate

[Kenny同志]

1. “talk” can be translated in Chinese as 会谈 , 谈话, or 交谈.

2. Commitment is a bigger word than promise. If you make a promise， you 答应 others to do something. 承诺seems only used on formal occasions.

3. 两国承诺将维持当前提振金融市场的举措，旨在带动全球经济走出衰退

There might be some mistyped characters and misused words. Hmm, it is supposed to be两国承诺将振兴当前金融市场，引导全球经济走出低谷。And the corresponding English translation might be : the two countries have made a commitment to revive the present financial market and direct out the global economy from recession.

4. 不断上升的持续忧虑 is not considered good Chinese. If it is a native speaker he might say 愈加感到忧虑（to be increasingly worried）, or 忧虑不减 ( worries are not reduced, or worries linger)

5. The difference between 维持and 保持is subtle. 维持is more formal and its object, in most cases, is something of more importance than that of 保持. For example, 维持治安、维持良好的外交关系；保持城市清洁、保持关系, etc.

6. Renewable energy, in Chinese, is 可再生能源. Renewable energy includes bioenergy.

7. 意见一致 useful and safe phrase that conveys agreement whilst, I suppose, still being a bit eloquent about (?)

I have not got the question right.

8. 平台is mostly used figuratively, which stands for a place where you can exchange ideas with others or where you can use or exhibit your skills and capacities. It can be sometimes translated as platform or forum.

9. 位置is not a so formal word while 地位equates one’s social status or the importance of a particular thing. 职能is mostly about duties and function.

10. 很多and 许多can often be treated equal; 诸多is derived from classical Chinese, therefore, more elegant; 大量means a great / large number of or a great / large amount of (more than 许多、很多、诸多in number or quantity)

11. 乃至（so + adjective+that）; 甚至(even)

12. In 这一框架, the measure word 个 is omitted so that it sounds better. Although 在这一个框架下is also right, in writing, most native speakers tend to omit the measure word 个.

13. 好消息是这种形式的会谈会促进双方采取具体措施应对具体问题. Here 促进should be replaced by 促使. And it is better that the sentence should be punctuated as follows, 好消息是，这种形式的会谈会促使双方采取具体措施来应对具体问题。

14. 极化的格局 (word by word, it can be translated as a polarized situation, but in your text, it might mean a polarized world or something )

15. 一损俱损 is a set phrase, so is一泻千里.

16. 独夫 an autocrat or a dictator

Edited August 10, 2009 at 01:11 PM by kenny2006woo

[atitarev]

I am sorry. I wasn't able to pick up the speed and the articles are a bit too long and complicated to read them often enough.

I think I will drop out for now with the intention of coming back later. I find reading the newspaper articles important and I want to master this skill at my own time.

[Scoobyqueen]

Today I am planning to read/listen to this article:

Anyone wants to discuss the piece?

Kenny - Thank you so much for commenting on the questions. I am very grateful for that. I wasnt expecting someone to comment on everything so thanks for the time you invested.

I am glad you clafied this sentence:

3. 两国承诺将维持当前提振金融市场的举措，旨在带动全球经济走出衰退

It makes more sense. Looking at your suggestion it is clear that the sentence had been typed wrongly.

4. 不断上升的持续忧虑 is not considered good Chinese. If it is a native speaker he might say 愈加感到忧虑（to be increasingly worried about something）, or 忧虑不减 ( worries are not reduced, or worries linger)

I am glad you pointed that out. I had also checked this sentence with a Chinese speaker prior to posting and she echoed your comments adding that the you dont need 不断and 持续twice.

The difference between 维持and 保持are subtle.

Thanks for this clarification, especially that the object of 维持 tends to be more important.

Your comment here:

13. 好消息是这种形式的会谈会促进双方采取具体措施应对具体问题. Here 促进should be replaced by 促使. And it is better that the sentence should be punctuated as follows, 好消息是，这种形式的会谈会促使双方采取具体措施来应对具体问题。

Such observations make me wonder if the articles are not that well written. Perhaps they are written by Chinese people who have already spent a long time in Australia

[Kenny同志]

Hi, Scoobyqueen, I am glad to have been of help.

The article might have been composed by an Australian Chinese. As to Chinese writing, well, it is a long story, many things play a part in the prevalence of awkward Chinese. Today even many university students cannot write good Chinese. This is really depressing.

I enjoy a lot answering others’ questions and I think we can benefit each other from our discussions. Lol.

Your questions are always welcome.

By the way, I cannot access the web which the link you posted leads to. I am sorry.

Edited August 10, 2009 at 01:02 PM by kenny2006woo

[Scoobyqueen]

As to Chinese writing, well, it is a long story, many things play a part in the prevalence of awkward Chinese. Today even many university students cannot write good Chinese. This is really depressing.

I presume you mean Chinese university students rather than foreign ones Anyway I am wondering what the reason for this is. I would have thought today's easy access to lots of high-quality written sources would inspire better use of the written language.

Are poor writing skills reflected in the lack of "advanced words" or is it more related to a simpler way or writing (shorter sentences), or sloppy writing through the use of pinyin on the computer? It would be interesting to hear your opinions.

[Scoobyqueen]

By the way, I cannot access to the web which the link you posted leads to. I am sorry.

Why cant you access the link? doesnt it work from China?

I have some comments on the text. If anyone has any other comments or want to comment on one or more of these questions feel free.

"时事报道" this intro is played every day. Does anyone else think the道 sounds like a medium thing between 3rd and fourth tone rather than a clear fourth?

陷入僵局 you often see this phrase in the news meaning reached deadlock. 陷入 mostly used for negative situations (unlike reach in English which is neutral). The context here is:

....基准价谈判陷入僵局而受到影响，相反，近日铁矿石的现货价已经逼近每吨一百美元的水平。

In the above sentence i dont understand how 而受到影响 fits in. I may be reading it wrong. If something has already reached a deadlock they are naturally affected which then could not be "and is moreover affected" since the two are linked.

走势 - is 趋势 a better word for tendency or does 走势 have a different meaning?

context: 谈判陷入僵局而受到影响

我的同事吴音采访了一位经济学家:

采访 This word here is used to mean interview. However, I have attempted to use this word to mean "cover a story" but have been corrected a couple of times as this is suppposed to just mean to interview. Can anyone clarify what is the word for "cover a (news) story".

Comment on the text itself:

I dont understand why the negotiation of steel prices would be affected by the arrest of a suspected spy who works for Rio Tinto. At the moment there has been no trial and no more information. Alternative could be that China is using this to put pressure on price negotiations. Text:

另外，据报中国逮捕力拓集团公司驻中国的高管胡士泰也会对澳中两国的谈判产生一定的影响。

相差甚远 - is this a common fixed expression (meaning: differ significantly) that you can use also in the spoken language?

取消 used here:

世界矿业巨头必和必拓希望取消每年制定一次的基准价格

取消 seems to be used a lot meaning "eliminate" (whereas more often it means "cancel") but I was wondering if it wouldnt be more accurate to use any of these words 废除, 消除, 清除? "Cancel" in English would not adecuately cover the meaning.

In the following sentence would it have been possible to use 摆脱 instead of 失去？

如果都按照市场现价的话采矿公司就失去了它们原本有义务要销售的客户

Isnt 失去 a bit weak?

In the following sentence:

但是他并不认为这一案子会产生长远的影响。

Could 产生 have been replaced by 引发to make the link even stronger?

Just out of interest could you use this word 徘徊occuring in the following sentence in another context namely to refer to people who rubber neck if there has been an accident or a quarrel or similar (also 看热闹)?

澳元兑人民币的汇率本周也一直徘徊在一澳元兑换五点七元人民币的水平以上

I am curious if the following sentence would have worked with 之所以

他说，澳元近期走强主要有三个原因。

becoming

澳元之所以近期走强是因为。。

If I find the answers to some of the questions above I'll post them later.

[Kenny同志]

In my opinion, the prevalence of awkward written Chinese is the result of a combination of factors, bad translation which began at the early twentieth century being one of them. The Chinese nation was not a so strong one then and she strove to learn from the west. Some Chinese scholars perceived the Chinese language not so accurate ( I do not think this is true) as its western counterparts and they thought the solution to so – called inaccurate Chinese was by introducing some western language grammar — the fastest and most effective way was literal translation, which contributed most to today’s terrible written Chinese. Bad translation, especially literal translation, still happens and circulates today.

The second to blame is the too much emphasis placed on English. English has been made a compulsive course for Chinese students since 1970s, what is more, English is treated equally important ( in terms of scores in the National University / College Entrance Examination) as Chinese and mathematics. What is most absurd I think is that there is no Chinese language course in university curricula but there is English course. And you must get your CET – 4 (an aptitude test of English ) Certificate before you can get your B. A. and your CET – 6 Certificate before you can get your M. A. .These leave Chinese students very limited time for Chinese learning so it is no wonder that they produce bad written Chinese.

There are some other factors but I rate the above two mentioned the major ones.

Edited September 29, 2009 at 07:52 AM by kenny2006woo