Führer - translations and transliterations

[atitarev]

Are there a few ways to say Führer in Chinese Mandarin? I found these and added to the Wiktionary:

元首 (also: head of state), 领袖 (also: leader)

Perhaps the latter is only used in combinations.

Google translate suggests 希特勒, which just means Hitler.

Is there a phonetic translation of Führer in Putonghua?

[chrix]

I guess the problem is that in German it just means "leader", like the Italian "Duce", but in Chinese it wouldn't carry over the fascist connotations. Even the Chinese Wikipedia just uses the German directly: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrer Depending on what the context is, using the name and the title together might be the best thing to do in Chinese.

[atitarev]

I am aware of the German meaning and checked the Wikipedia. Still, Duce has also

杜奇 (Dùqí), apart from 领袖” or 元首, which sounds very much like Italian Duce. I am looking for a similar, pure phonetic transliteration.

[chrix]

you're still not saying what you need this for, but if you just need a pure phonetic transliteration, anything coming close should be fine... Since it doesn't appear to be commonly used in Chinese, it will be confusing to a reader without putting "元首" in brackets behind it anyways, and thus I think in this case using the Latin script would be advisable.

[atitarev]

It's no problem for me, if it's ambiguous, most foreign transliterations are and they require a description or more context.

I am simply checking for the existence of such a transliteration first.

anything coming close should be fine...

I prefer the version actually used somewhere by more than one person (if it exists).

[roddy]

I think it can also be a surname, so there's likely a transliteration in that context somewhere.

[chrix]

Great idea, hadn't thought of that! German Wikipedia had a couple of people with the last name Führer. But to my surprise it wasn't the composer but the theologist who popped up on a Chinese website: 富勒尔, source: http://www.chinesepen.org/Article/hyxz/200905/Article_20090512131130.shtml

Edit: it turns out that the theologist, Christian Führer, was a famous pastor in Leipzig, who was involved in organising the so-called Monday demonstrations in Leipzig in 1989, which ultimately led to the fall of the Berlin Wall. I guess that's pretty important...

Edited May 20, 2009 at 03:05 AM by chrix

[atitarev]

Thanks!

[Scoobyqueen]

Incidentally Führer in German is only used to refer to Hitler nowadays.

[chrix]

since this is not a forum on German, I won't go into detail, but this is not correct. It is actually quite complicated with a lot of alternative expressions used in different contexts, but occasionally Führer gets used in a non-Nazi context. Quite often in the sense of "guide" (both the person and the book), but even sometimes in the sense of "leader"... Just try googling "der Führer", "die Führer", "ein Führer"....

Edit: if you read German, here's some links from Wikipedia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Führer and http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrer_(Politik)#Der_Begriff_in_Zusammenhang_mit_Adolf_Hitler

[renzhe]

I agree with Scoobyqueen that the word Führer without qualifiers is generally avoided nowadays. Variations and derivatives such as Stadtführer, Anführer, Lokführer, Bergführer, etc. are preferred.

I think I've heard the word used occasionally to mean a tourist guide or something, but never for a person.

[abcdefg]

Are there a few ways to say Führer in Chinese Mandarin?

I can't answer your question myself, but I can point you to a possible source of an answer. I recently saw the movie "Rabe" 拉贝日记 about the German businessman in Nanjing who helped protect civilians during the Japanese incursion. It had lots of references to Hitler in the (Chinese) dialogue plus Chinese and English subtitles.

Edited May 20, 2009 at 12:02 PM by abcdefg
add info

[atitarev]

Agree with Renzhe about the current usage of Führer in modern German.

abcdefg, I watched the Nanjing Massacre.

I've got the Russian spy series "17 moments of Spring" about Standartenführer Stierlitz/Colonel Isayev - Soviet spy in Nazi Germany (fiction) in Chinese and Russian, has Chinese subtitles. It has a lot of terms specific to that period in Germany but it would take some time to find the specific words in 12 episode series.

"Semnadtsat mgnoveniy vesny" (1973) - IMDb user comments

[sea-au-don]

Informative postings. My associated reading experiences however convince me Führer usually translates to 元首 in Chinese. Neutral in itself, 元首 is used as the Hitler’s title in the Chinese texts which I come across.

[chrix]

well Renzhe, you're right, usually it is avoided, there is also a lot of synonyms available now, such as Anführer, Leiter, Führungskraft etc. And as you rightly said, it is still often used in compounds.

But Führer itself can be used. In the plural it might be perhaps more common, like "Die Führer der Muslime", "die Führer der G-8-Staaten", even "die Führer der deutschen Friedensbewegung". But even in the singular, if you are talking about a person who has shown leadership qualities, you can use the rather bland "Führungspersönlichkeit", which might be preferred by companies, but literati will just use "Führer". The film director Heinrich Breloer, who cannot be said to have any sympathies for the Nazis, has called Thomas Mann "a leader the German people should have followed instead of Hitler".

There are a couple of words in the German language that have become a minefield after the Nazi era, words like Volk, ausmerzen, Mischehe, Endlösung, Sippenhaft etc. And Führer definitely is one of them. But each word has its complex own story.

[Scoobyqueen]

Incidentally Führer in German is only used to refer to Hitler nowadays.

I just heard führer used for a religious leader (current Iran context).