My Chinese Boyfriends Arranged Marriage

[wushijiao]

Just to add to the discussion (and I’m generally reluctant to add details about my personal life to discussions like this…) but:

- My future in-laws were fine with me sleeping with their daughter in their house before we were married.

- My in-laws (and the whole extended family) have never been anything but extremely nice and supportive of me (a white person).

- My father-in-law tried to give some “yellow movies” to his daughter so that we’d be “happier” together.

- The in-laws said we could live in their hometown (Luoyang), Shanghai, the US, or wherever. That decision was up to us.

In sum, I really have nothing to say but positive things about my Chinese in-laws.

I really sympathize with the difficulties Wonghua is going through, and I have every reason to believe that moms like the one she is describing are quite common. I think situations closer to mine are less known, perhaps, and I am slightly worried that all “Chinese” or “Chinese parents” might be seen as fairly consistent, when in fact I think their views towards these issues really depends on each particular person’s view. Or, one might wonder whether northern Chinese are less bound by tradition. I really don’t know. In many cases, I’d suspect that it’d be more useful to see these issues less from a “nationality X does this…lens” and more from analyzing the motivations, fears, and desires that compel individual people to act in certain ways.

[Senzhi]

The Chinese don't really do "forced marriages"

Maybe. To me, any requested marriage under threat of family eviction is a "forced marriage". But then: I come from a different culture, am not a lawyer, and neither do I have any authority.

This stuff about Chinese dating foreigners brining disgrace on their family is absolute bollocks.

Then I'm absolute bollocks too. As it happened to me. Her parents even refused to see me or speak to me, forced her to give up any kind of contact with me from the moment they did find out (although we do stay in touch secretly through ... well .. QQ), and forced her on someone she claims she doesn't love. All under threat of family eviction. They even did forbid her to go out of the house.

Of course, she could have resisted. But then that's an extremely tough decision to make, if you consider that family is the most important relationship in Chinese culture.

To give you another example: one of my former female students is not allowed to go out, neither by day nor night, has no friends (except internet friends, read: QQ), can only go to work (in the family company), and then back home. Even though she doesn't agree with the situation, she feels she has no other choice than to accept it: it's her family.

She's 24 years old ...

To be completely honest, I'm not sure what I would do under the same circumstances.

Of course, I also know a fair amount of people who do have full freedom in their choices in life.

[renzhe]

Nobody is claiming that all Chinese people are like this, or that this is something unique to the Chinese. As I said, I know over a dozen Chinese people who married abroad, and most of them have had no problems.

But it's silly to suggest that this sort of thing doesn't happen.

[WongHua]

Oh i'm sorry i seem to have used my words wrong ^ ^u

i just cant believe how loving someone who isn't your same race can be immoral..

I meant that as a response to this post:

In some circles, this is seen as immoral behaviour, and the parents are also under all kinds of pressure from the rest of the family and others.

Sorry if it might have offended or so ^ ^u

In reality i can understand, i know you might think our cultures are completely different but they're not, in fact, traditionalist Mexican customs are somewhat alike Chinese, we are also tought to respect parents and out family first, and to the more traditionalists, some more extreme where the child must marry before he/she's 15 or it's considered a disgrace to the family. And spanish-based families can be racist, althought they wont flat out prohibit from dating other races now they sure make it a difficult time. And my background is both so i do understand!

My grandmother went insane the first two times i dated Asians, and she would flat out tell me in their face "------(guy) is very cute, proper, and comes from a good family, why dont you date him?", and you cant really confront your elders so..

Anyways,

If your boyfriend is all for calling it off and giving up, then it's already lost. However, if he seems sorry to have to obey his parents, then certainly get them together, the four of you at the very least, and talk it out. Best of luck.

That's quite a problem, because yes he seems very sorry to obey his mother, and keeps mentioning how he doesnt want it this way, and he doesnt want us to break up, but at the same time when i asked if he was going through with the marriage he just said he didnt know, and seemed like he's giving in, but he hasnt called it off, maybe hoping his mom might change her mind? :

And yes, i agree with wushijiao with not all families being the same, the boyfriend i had before him, his father was very supportive and nice, he would even give him ideas on where to go and what to give me, and his mom wasnt 100% fond of the fact he was dating a foreign girl but nonetheless was very nice. Then again might be different because they were Hoi San, and the whole family had lived here for about 10 years.

But there is always a common set of traditions most families follow, some dont of course but they're not the majority.

Of course, she could have resisted. But then that's an extremely tough decision to make, if you consider that family is the most important relationship in Chinese culture.

Exactly, it's a horrible position to be in, and of course family always has the upper hand.

And i would hate to put him further on the spot, i would never have him choose between his family and me.

We can just enjoy these days we have before he's forced to marry i guess, maybe keep in contact as friends.

Haha our friend actually suggested that we keep seeing each other even after he marries, since he doesnt love or even know the other girl. My boyfriend got mad at him and said it wouldnt be fair to me and he wouldnt put me in that situation.

Nobody is claiming that all Chinese people are like this, or that this is something unique to the Chinese.

I agree, it's not a black and white discussion, it just comes down to majority and how common it is, not generalization that ALL are the same.

(And it's definitely not unique to Chinese, many cultures practice it as well, my grandmother herself was married off when she was 14).

So it would be wise to say that we should say and take everything as personal experience and opinions not facts and generalizations

Again, thank you all for your input!

It gives me a lot to think about and i will definitely need all the information i can for when i talk to him.

And thanks for you good luck wishes

[adonis115]

Firstly, stop thinking that there is some secret mystery way that makes Chinese people different . . . Chinese parents are only interested in their son/daughter finding a good partner to marry that's all.

Can't agree more

I bet this kind of thing is less common now in mainland.

[Moving_away]

Pretty much everything seems to be said but I still wanted to contribute this video because this tread reminds me of it all the time. The approach is from the other way around, but maybe it helps even a little more to understand.

http://www.sexybeijing.tv/new/video.asp?id=103

From a personal account, the parents of my girlfriend (a chinese) are very supportive towards me (a dutch), while they didn't even ever meet me in person yet (although I can imagine that the fact that I am preparing to move permanently to China helps in the trust). I personally think it really depends on the open-mindedness and what importance they give to tradition.

Anyway, hope all the best for you and your boyfriend, but know when to prevent too hurtfull situations for any of you.

[HashiriKata]

Mother

By Roger Waters

".....

Mother, do you think she's good enough

For me?

Mother, do you think she's dangerous

To me?

Mother, will she tear your little boy apart?

Mother, will she break my heart?

Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry

Momma's gonna check out all your girlfriends for you

Momma won't let anyone dirty get through

Momma's gonna wait up until you get in

Momma will always find out where you've been

Momma's gonna keep Baby healthy and clean

Oooo Babe

Oooo Babe

Ooo Babe, you'll always be Baby to me

(Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry

Momma's gonna make all of your nightmares come true.)"

[Meng Lelan]

Pretty much everything seems to be said but I still wanted to contribute this video because this tread reminds me of it all the time. The approach is from the other way around, but maybe it helps even a little more to understand.

http://www.sexybeijing.tv/new/video.asp?id=103

性感北京, I've only gotten to know this show. Amazing stuff. Especially the one about Valentine's Day, it was a good one. I wish this series were captioned in Chinese though.

[outcast]

Hi

I think it goes here, i'd like to ask, are arranged marriages still common in china?

I was quite surprised recently (as in this week) when my boyfriend's mom flew in from China with a "propper chinese" wife for him : because he's 25 and "should" be married by now, and if he didnt he would 'no longer be her son' (and the arranged wife is flying in from chine next week or so).

And even more surprised when he told me he didn't want to, that he'd rather marry me, but he HAD to because he couldnt go against his mom.. and he couldnt tell his mom he'd marry me because i'm not Chinese... Actually, tell his mom in general he's dating me. So i guess we'll be breaking up anytime soon...

I cant help but wonder if it's normal in china, or if it differs from regions? He and his family is from Guangdong, 恩平 to be more exact.

I'd really appreciate some insight ^ ^ i am at a loss!

包办 is illegal. This really demonstrates where his loyalties really are, which is not to you. If he was too cowardly to even tell his parents about you, what does that say about your place in his heart?

Did he ever really intend to marry you? Doubtful, otherwise he would have told his parents. Either he is a playboy or a coward, either way it looks like you wasted your time and your feeling.

[BrandeX]

You should also consider the economic factor. Are you affluent? Because if his family can fly overseas on whim, (most can never leave the country), have a house, and have a swimming pool, they are most likely millionaires.

[WongHua]

Well first of all i'd like to thank everyone for their input

In my opinion, we're not actually saying "all chinese are -this-", but more concentrating on the general conducts hehe!

You should also consider the economic factor. Are you affluent? Because if his family can fly overseas on whim, (most can never leave the country), have a house, and have a swimming pool, they are most likely millionaires.

I do think that might be the case because of many little details i noticed.

Well as an update, We broke up not much of a surprise i know.

The day before, his best friend told me he loves me very much and he wasn't playing around with me, and that he (the friend) proposed still seeing me even after he's married and he got upset at him and said he couldn't do that to me.

We talked about it, i didn't expect it but he was really upset

He said he wouldn't be able to see me while his mom was staying with him, and that he didn't want to break up but how were we gonna deal with that, and then, the fact that she would get him married, and he's going through with it, i asked why if he didnt want to and he just answered that for chinese there is no "i dont want to" when it comes to parents.

I noticed at first he was trying to be detached when we talked, but he ended up the opposite.

He was very sweet and we broke up in good terms, so it's so hard to believe he was just playing around with me or such! Plus he was always so into the relationship and very serious about it...

Anyways, i cant afford to have a break-down right now so i'll just stop writing hehe!

I've really noticed people in Guangdong tend to be more traditional, or some even less open-minded, what are your opinions regarding this?

Thanks everyone!

[Meng Lelan]

Guangdong? More traditional? I thought the northerners (Beijing, Tianjin, etc) are more traditional and conservative, the southerners less so. Hong Kong doesn't seem to have very traditional conservative thinking, but maybe others in this forum know more than I do.

[trien27]

25 for a man isn't that old.

It doesn't matter that he's 25, but rather he's under "30":

According to Confucius, a man has to be married by 29 years of age [Gregorian calendar] (which would roughly equate to 30 years of age by the Chinese lunar calendar.)

吾十有五而志於學,三十而立,四十而不惑,五十而知天命,六十而耳順,七十而从心所欲,不逾矩。

三十而立, literally means "to stand firm at the age of 30", but 立 is known to mean something other than "stand", but rather 成家立室, which means "make a family & establish a home".

Source: The Analects, Chapter 2. words by Confucius / Kong Fuzi, compilation is possibly by his students. Link: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Confucius#The_Analects

In ancient China, you're considered an old man by the age of 69 or 70 by the Chinese calendar. But today, people are living longer, and they might not care. But strict Confucians will go by everything that's said by Confucius, even if he was born 2560 years ago. Confucius was born in 551 BCE and died at the of 72 in 479 BCE.

[HashiriKata]

I've really noticed people in Guangdong tend to be more traditional, or some even less open-minded, what are your opinions regarding this?

Not just in Guangdong but anywhere, people with money and power tend to be able to afford to be traditional.

[WongHua]

Guangdong? More traditional? I thought the northerners (Beijing, Tianjin, etc) are more traditional and conservative, the southerners less so. Hong Kong doesn't seem to have very traditional conservative thinking, but maybe others in this forum know more than I do.

Oh really? I guess it really doesnt depend on whether North or South, more like the size of thecities cities? then again i dont know that much about Northerners because all my friends are from Guangdong d: but i have noticed the people i talk with online from the North tend to be more open, but as you said probably others in the forum know more d:

Big cities seem to be more open minded, you're right about Hong Kong but it's a big city and was directly influenced my western culture for some time so maybe that's why they're so open, but people i know from Jiangmen (more specifically Enping, Kaiping(is it said like this? Hoiping in Cantonese), Taishan (Toisan), etc. either tend to be very much traditional or have told me about their families being very strict with tradition.

It doesn't matter that he's 25, but rather he's under "30":

Thank you trien27! that is such good insight.

True, and not just in China, there are many places that consider that you must marry under 30, just some enforce it more than others. Of course in America that's starting to be seen as somewhat young to marry.

But i think maybe it's considered more whether the person is, as you put it, "standing firm" enough to get married.

Sorry that i go on so much!

It's just very interesting

I was remembering today, and now that i think about it, he had mentioned a while ago wanting to take me to China with him when he visited for Lunar New Year. I wonder now if that even means anything..

Also the day we broke up he took my cellphone and put in his new number (because he had just lost his phone and got a new one), why would he do that if we're breaking up?? @_@ so confusing!!

[Lu]

Seems to me that he really likes you and really wants to be with you, but he doesn't want to go against his parents. It probably hurts for him too, and so he doesn't want to really break up with you (and so still gives you his number). But it seems to me that this way it's only going to be more painful for both of you.

It's a sad situation to be in, I wish you the best, and hope things get better for you soon.

[wannabeafreak]

I don't think this kind of stuff happens in Hong Kong at all. After reading every post on this thread, I'm quite disgusted by this behaviour and makes me sick. What's worse is the guy is 25 and cannot independently make his own decision without mummy. Shameful that a man would be controlled by his Mum especially at this age.

My father-in-law is from Guangzhou and mother-in-law from Chiu Chow, however both have lived in Hong Kong since they were 20 years old and 5 years old respectively. Their thoughts are that if their kids are happy, then they are happy too. This arranged marriage business just reminds me of these Indian arranged marriages where its just all loveless and probably end up having 2 separate beds.

I have relatives in Guangzhou who allow their kids to sleep with their bf/gf before marriage in their own home.... I cannot possibly imagine authentic modern-day city dwellers would follow such old-fashion village mentality.

one of my former female students is not allowed to go out, neither by day nor night, has no friends (except internet friends, read: QQ), can only go to work (in the family company), and then back home. Even though she doesn't agree with the situation, she feels she has no other choice than to accept it: it's her family.

She's 24 years old ...

This is just sad and pathetic.

Seems to me that he really likes you and really wants to be with you, but he doesn't want to go against his parents. It probably hurts for him too, and so he doesn't want to really break up with you (and so still gives you his number). But it seems to me that this way it's only going to be more painful for both of you.

Please... He is 25 years old and a guy. Maybe I'm too extreme, however, I know tons of guys in Hong Kong that just play girls to get them into bed. No intention of love or marriage. To the majority of these guys, its all just a game and if you mention the word marriage, it doesn't even register as an event item until they are 35+ years old. Perhaps he is just a big wuss and mama's boy, but I've never come across such people.... Actually this just reminded me of a movie called "My Big Fat Greek Wedding".

[Lu]

That movie was on tv here last night :-) The difference is that Toula stood up to her parents, and also her fiance was very willing to do everything exactly as her family wanted it.

Maybe he's playing her, maybe he is sincere but weak. In any case he should handle the situation better than he does, but since he doesn't, WongHua will have to make sure she takes care of herself.

[Music&MeForever]

I'm quite disgusted by this behaviour and makes me sick. What's worse is the guy is 25 and cannot independently make his own decision without mummy. Shameful that a man would be controlled by his Mum especially at this age.

Right! No matter what culture we're talking about, a man mature enough to get married should be mature enough to take responsibility and make his own decisions like getting a job and breaking free from his parents. This is how it should be. And this is what love is all about, it's the force that gives you strength to endure hardships together, to build a future together. Even if marriages all over the world are sort of business contracts, but I guess this goes only for the rich. And I'd say that's the problem in your story, the class - not you being a foreign girl.

Wonghua, just think about it ：he chose his comfort over you. Don't fool yourself. No matter how sad he looks or what he says to you, he's not man enough and it's best for you to let go. Or would you prefer to waste your youth as his concubine? Still very popular where he comes from. Because that's what he offered when he gave you his new number. Don't do it, please. It would be a pity. Better listen to studentyoung:

Take it easy, perhaps your Mr. Right is waiting for you in the near future.

Think about it ：what you need is a man who will make you feel special, not second best.

I wish you true love