Study in Chengdu, Kunming or Hong Kong ? Comparison

[Simon_CH]

Hi everyone,

I have the chance to live and study in China for one year. I study International Management which is basically Business & Law with an emphasis on intercultural understanding, business practices and language. I will at that time have already had 1 year of Chinese language lectures at 3 hours per week, so rather basic I assume.

Now our partner universities are Sichuan University, Chengdu / Lingnan University, Hong Kong and Yunnan University of Finance & Economics (Kunming).

I prefer to evualuate my choices carefully and will also make a visit to China before deciding for sure. (I could go anywhere else, but that wouldn't make sense after studying Chinese I guess). Here is what I could gather so far:

Kunming:

+Good location to visit my friends in Chiang Mai and Bangkok, Thailand (I lived there for 1 year) direct flights

+Cuisine:Due to its proximity to SEA I assume it's more spicey ?

+Relatively cheap and nice weather

+Good location for outings and holidays in the nearby area

+Expat community

+Relatively small city

-Less developped than Eastern cities

-Peasant mentality (sorry if derogatory, no disrespect meant)

-Very little chance of making yourself understood in English if necessary

-People in general more traditional, less open or knowledgeable of the world

--> Assumption: No Student culture with bars, coffee shops and/or areas where to

have a social life outside of Expat zones. (I rather mingle with open-minded locals than with like-minded foreigners, even if we still end up talking English)

Hong Kong:

+ very easy to make yourself understood

+very developped

+great shopping (not that I do much of that..) and nightlife

-expensive

-not as much a challenge

-apparently bad food, Cantonese isn't really my style abroad either

-I am not fully aware how learning Mandarin in Uni in Switzerland would help me there

or how much I could even practice and improve it when In HK..

(otherwise I have yet very little information about student life in HK)

Chengdu:

+Excellent food, exactly my taste, Chilli, Szechuan pepper etc..

+Apparently quite good standard of living there: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2006-01/03/content_508828.htm

+relatively cheap(?)

-don't know too much about it really..

I have read a few threads on this forum already, especially about Kunming, but would always appreciate ideas, opinions or facts helping in my decision. Discussions are welcome too, objective or not I don't mind.

Cheers,

Simon

[Don_Horhe]

I spent more than a week in Kunming, and, albeit one week being practically nothing, I can still say that you're slightly wrong about this fair city, and here's why:

-Less developed - while maybe true, when compared to Beijing and Shanghai, have in mind that in a "developed city" like Wuhan, where I live, one can rarely see the sun or sky, due to all the pollution. Kunming is clean, green, traffic is actually quite bearable, compared to how Wuhanese drive, and there's quite a lot to do and see in and around the city.

-Peasant mentality - it all depends on the person, although I sort of get what you mean - you get this everywhere in China, regardless of city size or location. But again, it all depends on what type of people you meet.

-Almost all the places I've been to had English speaking staff (well, excluding small corner shops and restaurants in the alleys of the Muslim Quarter and such), as Kunming, and Yunnan in general, are quite popular with tourists. Another thing, due to the surprisingly high number of foreigners one can see on the street (when compared to Wuhan), people won't point and stare and scream upon seeing a laowai.

-That is generally true for the older generation and not only in Kunming.

-Wrong. Go, for example, to Kunming University and you can meet numerous Chinese students who will initially approach you for language practice, but as time goes by will most probably end up being your friends. Chinese people are, after all, people.

If I were you, I'd choose Kunming without even thinking, the reason being that not only is the city nice and everything, but you also get to be near places like Dali, Lijiang, Xianggelila (Shangrila) in the northwest, Tiger Leaping Gorge and Xishuangbanna, to name but a few. While Chengdu and Sichuan are also interesting, have in mind that Chengdu is one of the "Four Furnaces" of China, meaning that, along with Nanjing, Wuhan and Chongqing, is one of the hottest cities in China. Kunming, on the other hand, is known as China's Spring City, having mild temperatures throughout the year. But then again, I'm biased, since I've already been there. Anyway, good luck!

[Simon_CH]

Thanks a lot for your reply, very helpful indeed. As I said, I have only read through several threads and posts about Kunming, and this thing about more traditional thinking etc. is something I read between the lines. I certainly appreciate Chinese people interested in practising their English while teaching me a bit of Mandarin, it's something I would have wanted to do from the start. But, and I guess here is my real question, from what I could gather it seems that young, educated people from Bejing and elsewhere are more "progressive"/worldly/western-oriented than in Kunming. And what I would really appreciate is modern Chinese friends who would go out with me, discuss things without too much consideration of what is appropriate for a traditional mind etc.. I find it difficult to exactly describe it without it being missunderstood for something I don't intend as I'm not a native English speaker. But in general I guess I'm looking for interesting people who can give me an outlook on China and Chinese culture without being too much absorbed or rooted in it.

Who don't have to go home at 11pm because it's their culture. Who wouldn't mind going to the cinema and have the occasional beer & harmless fun. In Chiang Mai, northern Thailand I found a lot of those because it was a University city and life was well for many students, and despite very few of them actively seeking foreign friendship it was easy and fun to get acquainted to them once you already had a few Thai friends. I would go have a coffee, go grab some lunch and occasionally go to party with them. And I'm afraid that many acquaintances in Kunming (who aren't interested in either marriage or money or solely language practice!) might be just a bit too formal and reserved in that matter, and I'm not talking about dating but normal friends. Please correct me if I'm wrong or what you think about my assessment, because it's difficult to imagine it without actually having been there but just read about. May have to add that I'm 25 but seem older to many Asians not so much because of my looks but because of my behaviour, so not exactly in the teenage "let's go get drunk for the first time"-age.

[abcdefg]

I’ve lived in Kunming for about the last six months as well as part of last year. I commend you on your careful research.

Kunming food is spicy, though perhaps not as spicy as Sichuan. The weather is quite temperate, though “Eternal Spring” does not mean that it isn’t cold in winter and hot in summer. Neither the cold nor the heat is extreme.

As to social life, suggest you take a look at www.gokunming.com. Kunming has Lots of universities and it's not the "backwater" that it apparently was in years past. You can find any kind of friends you want here; it mostly depends on you.

Edited May 27, 2009 at 01:22 AM by abcdefg
add info

[philo-publius]

+Relatively cheap and nice weather

The weather is good yes. However, it does get cold during the winter as there is no heating.

-Less developped than Eastern cities

just as developed as any other 3rd-tier city in China.

-Peasant mentality (sorry if derogatory, no disrespect meant)

I have no idea what you mean.

-Very little chance of making yourself understood in English if necessary

Unless you go to cafe or bar that has a big expat crowd you won't be able to make yourself understood with English. However, this would work to your advantage if you plan to study Chinese.

-People in general more traditional, less open or knowledgeable of the world

In my experience, the same could be said of Chinese people in general. As in any city, you'll find progressive minded people as well as conservative.

--> Assumption: No Student culture with bars, coffee shops and/or areas where to

have a social life outside of Expat zones. (I rather mingle with open-minded locals than with like-minded foreigners, even if we still end up talking English)

The area around Yunda (wenlin jie) is the expat/student/intellectual area. It has bars and cafés so don't worry. Also expats/students sometimes hang around Jinmabiji fang and Kundu.

Be careful of the girls around kundu though.

[Simon_CH]

Thanks for the replies, makes me more interested in going to Kunming. I guess Hong Kong would just not be exactly the challenge and learning environment I'm looking for, despite being an excellent city to visit.

So it's Chengdu & Kunming. I haven't gathered too much info about Chengdu, seems nice as well, but the constantly very hot temperature and high pollution/traffic might be a turn off.

[HuLing]

well, as a chinese, here i will tell sth about chengdu.

chengdu is famous for local snacks, most of which are hot and spicy,but really of good taste.

living in chengdu is a pleasing thing. if you step into this city you will be amazed by its extremely slow pace. not like people in Beijing or shanghai, people there prefer enjoy life time. they spend most of the time playing Majiang, drinking chinese tea, or sth like that. and you would also meet beaautiful women everywhere who have tender and soft accent. as most chinese youth know english, you dont have to worry about communication things. chengdu is hometown of panda. of course you can see our panda.

as for the moist summer weather you mentioned, i think it is the same to every city in the world.

[muyongshi]

Well this year has been VERY odd and to date we haven't had more than 2.5 days in a row with the temperature being over 80. It's cool enough right now to put on a light jacket (and the wind blows and makes me reach for my sweatshirt).

In my opinion if you want a place without a TON of foreigners- none of these places are for you. You want spicy food? Chengdu. You want small? Not Chengdu.

Of course the best alternative is Mianyang- not to far from Chengdu. Smaller town- voted cleanest in all of china (or top 10 something like that). Few foreigners, great Sichuan food, and close enough to the outside that many foreign stuff is available either in city or by the 1.5 hour drive to Chengdu.

[Don_Horhe]

Also, consider the fact that in Hong Kong you would probably end up speaking more English than Mandarin, or even start learning Cantonese which, in itself, is not a bad thing, but in the beginning will only make things even more complicated. I'm assuming that you're learning simplified characters, which is yet another obstacle if you plan on going to HK - they use traditional forms there.

[Simon_CH]

Thanks again for the replies, I am fully aware that small and big is quite a relative term in China. I live in the biggest city of Switzerland, Zürich, which has roughly 600'000pax.

But I appreciate a city that still has a bit of an international flair, where there are enough educated, international people who don't necessarily have to be foreign.

I really don't mind foreigners being around, as they will still be outnumbered by a vast amount, so no problem there, up to me who I chose to befriend and socialise with.

So thanks for all the input, I agree with you there about Hongkong, my spoken English is good enough, no need to improve that there..

So I'll just travel to China and try to get a good feel of both Chengdu and Kunming while meeting up some locals through couchsurfing and similar! Thanks for suggestions about other cities, but my University has only 3 partner universities in China, you could in principle pave the way and organise going somewhere else, but by chosing a partner Uni it is ensured that your courses are accepted and give you credits needed back in Switzerland. (Mandatory 2nd year abroad)

Cheers again,

Simon

[muyongshi]

Well, I know that the Uni in Mianyang is frantically trying to take partner Uni's all over (I think they got 3 in the last 6 months). Don't know about your uni buy I'm sure there are many uni's in China that would be more than willing to start a new partnership

[Simon_CH]

Yeah, thanks Muongshy! There is certainly the possibility but I think I might just take the easy way and go to a Uni where the curriculum is already settled and stuff.

[mandarina]

hey,

i am also just in the process of deciding between kunming and chengdu.

i going there for the winter semester so probably kunming with a more moderate winter climate wins. but, on the other hand, i've heard lots of good things about sichuan university.

hm....

[philo-publius]

hi mandarina,

I'm not sure what a winter semester is, but I'm attending Yunnan University for the fall semester and I've heard good things about it. Last year I spent November-January in Kunming and I never even really needed a jacket. In fact, most of the time it was sunny and I could wear a t-shirt.

[mandarina]

yes, i meant fall semester. so is yunnan university the best one in Kunming?

did you already apply?

were there any complications?

any info would be welcome.

i just send them email with some questions...

thanks

[philo-publius]

I haven't attended any institutions in Kunming whatsoever, but from what I gather Yunnan Normal University and Yunnan University are fairly similar. I chose Yunnan University because it's campus is absolutely gorgeous and I'm told fewer westerners attend it. If you are looking for a a private institute then there is Kunming College of Eastern Language and Culture. This is a far costlier option however and most of the students will probably be westerners.

I actually applied as soon as I returned from Kunming a couple of months ago and there haven't been any complications other then that they wanted me to enter on an "L" visa and then they'll convert it to "X" or "F". I don't mind seeing as I won't have to take the medical exam twice then. If you do send them questions the lady who answers isn't particularly good at English and will probably give you the wrong info. I've found out a lot of stuff by just searching these forums or asking around.

The academic term at Yunda starts on September 1st and ends 10th of January. You need to register at least one week before the term commences. Tuition fee is 6200RMB per term.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

edit: tuition fee.

Edited June 1, 2009 at 04:26 PM by philo-publius

[mandarina]

hey,

i think i might chose the private school in kunming.

I've had the university experience and now i am thinking i want to try the small classes, person to person study sessions. Also, I think the univesities are best for elementary and intermediate levels, they are not usually that good with advanced classes. At least in my experience.

Do you still get x-visa even if you are not enrolled in a university, just attending a private school?

I especially have second thoughts about sichuan university, they told me that normally there would be 20-25 people in a classroom.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

[philo-publius]

I think the univesities are best for elementary and intermediate levels, they are not usually that good with advanced classes.

certainly, that seems to be the case.

Do you still get x-visa even if you are not enrolled in a university, just attending a private school?

I'm not sure if KCELC provides assistance in obtaining an X-visa. Perhaps someone with experience can field this one? Or you could just contact them and ask.