Chinese > English Translation Help

[leontiev]

I have a 1910 restaurant ware platter with a dragon and several chinese characters that I need help translating:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12820606@N04/3573657931/

A fellow restaurant ware seller provided the following translation for me:

First line: Zhang Lee Tea Place

Second line: Fish and Wine Restaurant

This may indeed be the translation, and if so, a confirmation would be appreciated. And, if this is the case, would Zhang Lee be a proper surname reference or have a different meaning?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!!

[leontiev]

I'd welcome even partial translations.

[renzhe]

The translation seems OK, but this is cursive calligraphy and I can't read all the characters. I imagine it's the same for many people, calligraphy is not always easy to read.

[BrandeX]

The only character my wife recognized was "Li"

[leontiev]

Thanks renzhe and BrandeX for the replies.

I knew that this was challenging to translate, but didn't know that it was cursive calligraphy, so that information is appreciated. Also, thanks for the "Li" confirmation.

Would you recommend a different source for translating cursive calligraphy? And, is this a character script style that is no longer used...for my on edification?

[renzhe]

It is used, but it is used for ornamental purposes, like this one. In calligraphy, it is the artistic quality that matters more than legibility, so it can be hard to read if you've only ever studied printed material.

[leontiev]

Thanks again renzhe!

Here's hoping that others will be able to interpret a few more pieces of this cursive calligraphy puzzle then...fingers crossed.

[gato]

The bottom three characters look like 康江楼 (reading from right to left) to me.

However, it seems like the characters should be read vertically rather than horizontally, as they don't line up straight horizontally, but they do vertically.

They characters in the first line, reading from right to left, could be 珉李圣部, which doesn't make much sense.

So I'm lost.

[HuLing]

as a chinese, I have to say that I am sorry I can`t figure out all of them. only 4 characters in the middle part. 李记茶楼. The boss`s family name must be Li. as for the first two characters I think it must be the name of that city or town. and the last one might be 制 which means "make". I am not very sure about this.

[studentyoung]

A fellow restaurant ware seller provided the following translation for me:

First line: Zhang Lee Tea Place

Second line: Fish and Wine Restaurant

According to your words above and the picture, the characters should be

First line: 張李茶部

Second line: 魚酒楼

This may indeed be the translation, and if so, a confirmation would be appreciated.

Yes, I think the translation is no problem.

Cheers!

Edited June 2, 2009 at 06:46 AM by studentyoung

[imron]

Unrelated, but also of interest is that Chinese dragons should have 5 claws, and this dragon only has 4 claws.

[studentyoung]

Imron, take a look, please.

关于五爪龙四爪龙三爪龙

元以前的龙基本是三爪的，有时前两足为三爪，后两足为四爪。实例可参见唐、宋、元的瓷器纹饰。明代流行四爪龙，清代则是五爪龙为多。

　　周朝“五爪天子、四爪诸侯、三爪大夫”

　　民间“五爪为龙，四爪为蟒”的说法形成于清代，主要作为皇帝与下臣服装上纹饰的差别，皇帝穿”龙袍”，其它皇族和下臣穿“蟒袍”，但这只是名称上的差别而已，从龙的形式上来讲无论龙和蟒都是四足蛇类，形状无差异。

http://cpbbs1.gamall.net/showtopic-38755-1.aspx

Cheers!

[leontiev]

Great feedback and thank you gato, HuLing, studentyoung and imron for the information, as every piece of information (including the dragon claw info) is helpful!! Imron, I suspect that the artist took liberties with the dragon image, just as they did with the cursive calligraphy.

I can tell you that the platter likely was used at a restaurant located in Minnesota-USA during the early 1900s and it was called The Mandarin. Confirming the proprietor or owner as Zhang Lee or Zhang Li or even Chang Li has not been easy.

According to information published by the Minnesota Historical Society, by 1910, there were only 10 Chinese restaurants in Minneapolis. I have a few postcards dating to 1908-1909 that provide information about The Mandarin located at 25-28 S. Fifth St. in Minneapolis and confirm the manager as being Yenmah Chas W., later changed to Yenmah Charlie W.

And while Yenmah Chas W. is listed as the manager, he may not have been the proprietor or owner, as they are not necessarily one in the same. To me, the name Yenmah Chas W. is not even remotely close to Zhang/Chang Li, so with studentyoung's confirmation, I'll continue my search for additional historical information about Zhang/Chang Li.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

Edited June 5, 2009 at 04:32 PM by leontiev