Foreing Engineer in Guangdong

[fentom]

Hello Everyone

I am in the middle of the process to get a job in Guangdong Nuclear Power.

I would like to know how much is earning a professional with this qualification

B.Sc. In Chemistry + B.Eng. in Chemical Engineer + M.Sc. in Environment

Fluent in english, spanish and french, with 8 years of international experience.

I am earning 100k/year right now in North America, but I am really excited to go to China and I want to get the job.

Can anybody tell me if 150k/year is reasonable?

Hope to hear ASAP

Fentom

[tinaz]

150k is not too much, i know one person who work in guangzhong he dian, he can earn over 100k a mouth, and every three mouth he can have many extra money.

[studentyoung]

Can anybody tell me if 150k/year is reasonable?

Well, for I really have no idea on the details of work experience you have and what kind of job you’re applying, I can’t judge whether 150k/year USD is reasonable for you. But I know that an experienced operator whose job is to monitor data on meters by shifts in Daya Bay Nuclear Power Operations and Management Co., Ltd. can ear the highest salary up to 300,000RMB per year. Perhaps it can be your reference.

What’s more. Back in 1990s, when Daya Bay Nuclear Power Station was newly built and started to operate, some foreign high level foreign nuclear engineers could earn a salary up to 300,000USD per year. But their jobs were really quite professional, i.e helping Chinese engineers how to design the station, how to import equipment & facilities, how to install them and troubleshoot, how to set up all kind of rules in the station, etc. And you……..?

but I am really excited to go to China and I want to get the job.

Well~ ~. I can understand how you feel, but I really hope you can calm down and take a look this thread. Please be patient and read the posts one by one, if possible.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/2-favourite-chinese-musician9968

Anyway, good luck to you!

Cheers!

[fentom]

Thank everybody for your thoughts

I born and live in South America for 32 years, then I moved to Canada 4 years ago.

My closest relatives live in Europe and S.A.

In Canada, I lived in 6 cities and 3 provinces in 3 years, almost 3000 miles away from my original idea to live. I am very very adaptive person, so I do not think that I have problems living there, also I love and I practice martial arts since I was 15

My wife support me and she wants to go to China.

On the other hand, with 150k

I can buy a descent house, 3 or 4 bedrooms, 1500 sq.ft ~ 150 m2, all the new furniture?

2 cars brand new ?

Pay the private school and health system ?

Gym, dance class, outdoor activities?

Dinner out, movies, travel, etc?

without problem?

I read that Beijing, Shanghai and Honk Kong, are really expensive cities.

Thanks again everyone

Fentom

[zerolife]

I'm assuming you are talking about 150k RMB, and not US dollar.

150k is more than enough to live comfortably BUT you won't be joining the "rich people" club

Forget about American style houses. Only few people can afford it...

You might want to start off with renting an apartment and then save up for your own. Private school? Maybe the cheaper one but I highly doubt you can afford the really good one.

[renzhe]

I don't think you can own a house in China. I believe that technically you lease it from the government for a set amount of time (50 years?). Make sure you get yourself acquainted with all the relevant laws before you get into something you're not expecting. You can start here. People have only started buying flats a few years ago, so don't expect it to be as straight-forward as in Canada.

As for driving, make sure to read this.

I also think that $150,000 a year is an extremely high salary in China, if it's dollars you mean.

Edited June 9, 2009 at 06:50 PM by renzhe

[studentyoung]

On the other hand, with 150k

Are you talking about 150,000USD or 150,000 RMB?

I can buy a descent house, 3 or 4 bedrooms, 1500 sq.ft ~ 150 m2, all the new furniture?

If you’re talking about 150kUSD, which is about 1,050,000RMB, it’s still enough to buy a descent apartment about 90-100m2 (in Guangzhou), 2 or 3 bedrooms, without new furniture. If you’re talking about 150k RMB, the money is still not enough for initial payment, I’m afraid. But you don’t need to worry about this, for the company usually will offer an apartment with furniture for you, if you get the job.

2 cars brand new ?

You can’t drive a car without a China’s driving license.

Pay the private school and health system ?

1.Private school. 150kUSD might be enough for one or two children, but 150k RMB is not enough.

2.Health system. Usually, your company will pay for it for you and make it clear in the contract, so you don’t need to worry about too much. But you should ask your company for details.

Private school? Maybe the cheaper one but I highly doubt you can afford the really good one.

If it’s 150k RMB, I have to agree with zerolife.

Gym, dance class, outdoor activities?

Usually, these things are in the area around the apartment the company offers you. The most common case is that foreign experts are arranged to live together, and you can ask your neighbors for details.

Dinner out, movies, travel, etc?

As for dinning out and travel, these two things are usually arranged by your company regularly. As for movies, you can ask your neighbors.

Make sure you get yourself acquainted with all the relevant laws before you get into something you're not expecting.

AGREE! AGREE! AGREE! I can't agree with you more, renzhe!

Cheers!

[jbradfor]

You can’t drive a car without a China’s driving license.

This is true, but he may be able to get a Chinese driving license, depending on your visa status.

[fentom]

Hi there

I am earning now 100k DOLLAR, so I am talking about 150k DOLLAR

I read the article about Land in China, but as far I understood you never own your house? You only has the right to use the house?

The law does not change the system of land tenure by which the state owns all land. However, in formalizing existing practice, individuals can possess a land-use right, which is defined in Chapter 10 of the law. The law defines this land-use right in terms of the civil law concept of usufruct.

In regards to driver

PRC laws say that foreign residents can have driver's licenses and that an IDP can be converted to a local license, possibly with an additional examination. Actually getting a license may be complicated. The particular complications seem to vary from place to place and over time.

I can drive with my IDL or get Chinese driver license, Am I right?

But I was little afraid about this:

Beware of large imported luxury cars. Sometimes they belong to gangsters or to young immature relatives of senior party or other officials and consider themselves to be above the law, which unfortunately in the still corruption prone China, they often are

What it supposed to mean?

It's like living in the early 30's when gangster went out of the car and kill you and nothing happens?

THAT can change my mind seriously...

By the way I am living in Edmonton, ALBERTA.

All your comments were excellent!

Thanks

Fentom

Edited June 10, 2009 at 03:30 PM by fentom

[renzhe]

I am earning now 100k DOLLAR, so I am talking about 150k DOLLAR

That is an extremely high salary in China, even for a foreigner. Generally, salaries in China are much lower than those in Canada, except for special cases:

- highly qualified managers and engineers sent over by foreign companies

- people whose qualifications are rare and can't be found in China

A Chinese with a university degree is looking at a starting salary something closer to 500 dollars per month.

I can drive with my IDL or get Chinese driver license, Am I right?

No, your IDL is invalid, but there is a way to convert it into a Chinese driver's license, if you are a resident.

It's like living in the early 30's when gangster went out of the car and kill you and nothing happens?

No, it means that if you drive a huge imported luxury car, people might think that you're some kind of gangster. Not many regular people can afford such cars. Not such a huge deal in Beijing or Shanghai, but in some of the smaller towns, it may look very out of place.

[fentom]

Thanks a lot Renzhe

My qualifications are, 3 Universities degrees

Bachelor of Science in Chemistry

Bachelor of Engineer in Chemical Engineer, MAJOR Nuclear power and Waste Management

Master of Science in Environment, MAJOR Solar and Wind Energy

Also I have 12 years of international experience -Canada and Uruguay- with 8 years of engineering experience, fluent in spanish, english and french.

Don't you think that I deserve that salary?

[renzhe]

You do, in North America.

It might be more difficult in China, but perhaps you can get it, if someone with your qualifications and skills is really needed and can't be found elsewhere.

[jbradfor]

I have no idea if you do deserve it.

A couple of degrees, especially mostly undergrad degrees, certainly wouldn't qualify for that. It's your experience and ability that makes the difference, and how do you seriously expect anyone here to judge that? We have no idea what your international experience is (being a waiter for 4 years, then a low-level engineer for 8 years, meets your description), and I would doubt that being fluent in Spanish and French would help a whole lot.

[fentom]

jbradfor

I agree with you and your description that I could have experience working in a bar or in a low level engineer position.

Also, speak italian, russian, german, spanish or whatever does not change anything in China. It just reflect your knowledge and part of your abilities.

But in other hand, How many people has MORE than 1 degree -4 years UNIVERSITY-?

In other hand, my Professional Engineer designation in Canada, is not a meaningless title.

But anyway, my point was if those qualifications deserve 500$ a month or 150k a year.

That's all, and please do not misunderstand me.

PD: In fact my academic background is 19 years of full time studies- School (6) + High School (6) + University (7) -, and I'm ONLY 35 years old with 12 years of experience related to industrial environments.

[adrianlondon]

Surely if they're advertising the job, or head hunting you for it, they'll tell you the salary they're expecting to pay. It's not likely they're going to ring you up and ask you what the salary should be. If they did do that, then ask for more ;)

[jbradfor]

@adrianlondon: It may be different in other places, but in the USA you're wrong. I've been contacted by a couple of head-hunters, and every time one piece of information they ask for is "expected salary". Sounds absurd to me too, but true.

@fentom: I'll see your 19 years and raise you by 5

[fentom]

Wow

Let me think ...

6 ACADEMIC YEAR at School

6 ACADEMIC YEAR at High School

4 ACADEMIC YEAR at University (IN USA/EUROPE)

2 ACADEMIC YEAR at University (Mastery)

2 ACADEMIC YEAR at University (PhD.)

This is the most common TOTAL: 20 ACADEMIC YEARS

In mi case, I have 6 year at University + 1 year at Mastery

if you have 5 more ACADEMIC years then you have 2 PhD?

[renzhe]

PD: In fact my academic background is 19 years of full time studies

I think there are several people here who can beat that handily

But it boils down to what special skills you have that a Chinese engineer wouldn't have. Because, Chinese engineers with similar qualifications are 5-10 times cheaper, according to the first two replies.

As I said, maybe you can get such a salary in China. Nobody other than your employer will know this. Foreigners getting 5x the market salary in China generally belong to one of the two groups I mentioned -- managers sent over by a multi-national company, or people with skills that don't exist in China.

[fentom]

"I think there are several people here who can beat that handily "

That mean that they are mostly PhD or at least 2 Master...

That is a pretty damn good network, but ACADEMIC ...

One thing that recruiters told me: They are 2 class of Engineer:

Academic Engineer --> he is dedicated to research/teach/study with little experience in the real field and most of them has Master as the lower degree

Field Engineer --> she has the most experience on the field, Engineer degree is enough and they could reach management positions if they would pursuit MBA.

When I was working at Suncor Energy Inc, most of Manager that I met told me almost the same, "If I have to decide between an Eng with a PhD but with less that 2 year of experience and Eng with 5+ year of experience, I choose the second one"

And obviously we are not talking about R&D because in that field, PhD and MSc are the winner far far away.

Back to the point, I think the same like you: Chinese Eng is way more cheap than foreign.

[studentyoung]

It's like living in the early 30's when gangster went out of the car and kill you and nothing happens?

No, it means that if you drive a huge imported luxury car, people might think that you're some kind of gangster. Not many regular people can afford such cars. Not such a huge deal in Beijing or Shanghai, but in some of the smaller towns, it may look very out of place.

I want to add more. I hope you don’t mind me (who is a Guangzhou’s local citizen) point out that showing off your wealth or your luxury car/s in a China's small town might make you a perfect target for gangsters, and local people might take you as either a gangster or someone who has some unusual relationship with some corrupt official. Is it clear? Please keep low-key, since you’re going to a brand new strange place. It’s also one of practical ways to protect you and your families.

I read the article about Land in China, but as far I understood you never own your house? You only has the right to use the house?

The law does not change the system of land tenure by which the state owns all land. However, in formalizing existing practice, individuals can possess a land-use right, which is defined in Chapter 10 of the law. The law defines this land-use right in terms of the civil law concept of usufruct.

Well, in China, the land is owned by government, but the hose or apartment is owned by the owner. A Chinese citizen can buy a house or an apartment, which means s/he can sell it, transfer it to his/her children or others, or his/her families can inherit it.But how a foreigner does such things in mainland China might need a lawyer’s advice, whose job must be in this field.

Since you’re a foreigner, the process of buying a house can be more complicated and longer. However, it would help, if your company can vouch for your information.

Cheers!