Foreing Engineer in Guangdong

[jbradfor]

2 ACADEMIC YEAR at University (PhD.)

Not in USA Universities.

4 is about the shortest, if one is quick and already has a masters. 6 is pretty average. [That's how long it took me.] 8-9 years is not unheard of, especially in the social sciences.

Back on topic, renzhe said it best. While your education is good (I'm not trying to belittle you), it in no way sets you apart. Besides, after 12 years work experience, your education becomes much less important. So focus on your experience and what you can bring to your (potential) employer that others can not.

[jbradfor]

Since you’re a foreigner, the process of buying a house can be more complicated and longer. However, it would help, if your company can vouch for your information.

Consider renting instead.

[fentom]

Thanks a lot for all your comments

I have a pretty good idea, but I have a little concern about security, that's all.

Thanks again everyone

[renzhe]

I have a pretty good idea, but I have a little concern about security, that's all.

China is actually quite safe. You'll probably feel safer in a big city in China than in the US or Canada, especially regarding violent crime.

But parading luxury cars in a country where much of the population is still poor might attract the wrong kind of attention. Not the gangster-shooting attention, but the "where did my car go?" attention.

In the US and Canada, having 3-4 cars is a necessity, as you can't even get milk without one. In China, it's different, and many people don't have cars, even foreigners. Taxis are cheap, omnipresent and reliable, day and night. Many people use them for transport.

China is quite different from Canada. There are no suburbs with big, pretty family-houses and 4 cars parked in front of them. You might want to consider renting a furnished apartment provided by your employer and using taxis for transportation instead of dealing with the stress and madness that is driving in China. You might find that it ends up more comfortable this way.

In fact, when it comes to the safety of you and your family, driving a car in China is one of the most dangerous things you can do

Edited June 11, 2009 at 02:56 PM by renzhe

[fentom]

Thanks a lot renzhe.

"Taxis are cheap, omnipresent and reliable, day and night. Many people use them for transport."

What about the "kidnap" trip to get money?

I mean, I take a taxi s/he sees me as foreign that I do not the city and s/he goes to a place where there is someone else waiting and forced me to gave them money?

In Argentina/Brazil it is very very common issue with taxis.

I would ask to studentyoung, who is actually living in Guangzhou

How is the city?

what is the reputation of CHINA GUANDONG NUCLEAR POWER CORP.?

Regards

Fentom

Edited June 11, 2009 at 05:36 PM by fentom

[renzhe]

In Argentina/Brazil it is very very common issue with taxis.

In Argentina/Brazil, it is also very common to carjack your vehicle when you're waiting for the green light.

I don't think this is an issue in most Chinese cities, but I'll let the residents answer. I certainly haven't had such experiences, and the punishment for such stuff is probably harsh.

[Scoobyqueen]

150k is probably about director level, product development/R&D or similar with staff. Is that the kind of job you are going for?

In terms of justifying your salary you seem to be emphasising some irrelevant details which I would be careful about when speaking to the headhunter. Someone of your calibre and international experience is expected to be focussed with a strategic mindset.

Companies in general are willing to pay for a candidate's languages if they are directly applicable to the job and if it is a requirement fluent must mean "fluent".

[fentom]

Sometimes -like here in Canada- when companies refer to FLUENT, is the meaning that you must have enough knowledge -oral, writing and reading- of the language to communicate, express your ideas and understand what other people are saying/wrote.

It is not refers that you must be a professor, so if you have some doubts or you make some grammatical mistakes or conjugate wrong, it is not a big problem.

In addition if you are willing to learn, to improve your language capabilities and reduce your language barrier, they support you.

I do not know in China, but Canada receive almost 100.000 immigrant by year which English is the 2nd or 3rd language, or they do not have any knowledge about it.

Even worst, New Foundland, Labrador, and the border with Quebec, has a FRENCHGLISH language, that it is really really hard to understand even for anglophones.

Australian English, British English, New Zeland English, American English all are different.

Trough my career I've leanrt that poor knowledge of the main language could be a huge problem but if you are willing to learn and you CERTAINLY try, you will be successful

That is exactly my case, I came to Canada speaking ONLY Spanish and French, because that was my idea, "live in Quebec".

I just started studying English in July 2006, without ANY knowledge of it.

Almost 3 years after, I got a level that allows my to reach my professional goal in Canada.

I know that I have to keep improving it and my co-workers help me with that, correcting my pronunciation, etc.

May be I am wrong to think that China's companies has the same requirements than canadian.

[studentyoung]

In fact, when it comes to the safety of you and your family, driving a car in China is one of the most dangerous things you can do

Oh, AGREE, Renzhe! You always hit the point!

What about the "kidnap" trip to get money?

I mean, I take a taxi s/he sees me as foreign that I do not the city and s/he goes to a place where there is someone else waiting and forced me to gave them money?

In Argentina/Brazil it is very very common issue with taxis.

It might happen, if you were a lovely slim girl and took the taxi alone. The most common case is that taxi drivers can recognize you as a new comer at once and might overcharge you. For you might be a big and strong foreign man, kidnapping you is not so cost-efficient. Hehe. (Sorry, just kidding.)

If it does happen, please keep cool and always remember that 110 is the number to call policemen in China mainland. If GPS function is in your mobile, it would be great. (Please also remember that 120 is the number to call an ambulance.)

I would ask to studentyoung, who is actually living in Guangzhou

How is the city?

what is the reputation of CHINA GUANDONG NUCLEAR POWER CORP.?

You mean Guangzhou? Well, it’s a controversial city. Some love it, and some hate it. When my relatives who live in Canada come to Guangzhou, they always get cough, for they can’t get use to the air in Guangzhou, which is not so clean. Their coughing might last more than 10 days. (I hope your families won’t suffer from it.) But take it easy, China Guangdong Nuclear Power Corp. is not in Guangzhou, but in Shenzhen.

As for the reputation of China Guangdong Nuclear Power Corp, well, it’s GOOD! It’s a state-owned enterprise in energetic field. Usually, the benefits it offers to its employees are not bad, like other state-owned monopolistic enterprises in China mainland. In local people eyes employees in this company are elites with both high salary and sound & complete social welfare. It’s a promising enterprise, in my opinion, due to the heavy demand on clean energy in South China.

May be I am wrong to think that China's companies has the same requirements than canadian.

I think, as long as your English is good and sound, the language problem will be no problem. In big enterprise like CGNPC, the Chinese engineers usually will just use English to communicate with you. Just take it easy.

Cheers!

Edited June 12, 2009 at 05:49 AM by studentyoung

[BrandeX]

Please report back with your salary after you have completed the process. It would be very interesting to see what a foreign national would be paid here working for the Chinese in a power plant, and not for example an Intl. company/expat package. Without knowing any details I would hazard to guess 50k rmb monthly tops, so it is interesting to find out what it is like in reality. Thanks!

[zerolife]

Don't you think that I deserve that salary?

fentom, you got to understand that living expenses in China (for an average joe) is significantly cheaper than in Canada. Just to give you an idea. On a 3500RMB / month budget, I was able to have about the same life style as I would have in the US (where I currently live) or Germany (my home country).

sure, you have a quite good qualification BUT in China, having Bachelor and Master is standard. Compared to Western countries, Chinese put a lot more value in education and getting multiple degrees. I know quite a lot people who have more degrees than you and they are making a lot less. Yes, not many people have two Bachelor degrees because two Master degrees are a lot more valuable. Bachelor programs have a lot general education ... you don't need it twice. Also, quite a lot of people have a dual degree that pretty much counts as two degrees,

Your international experience is defnitiv a plus but I'm not sure how valuable experiences from Uruguay are (compared to someone who has experiences in the US or Western Europe).

So you speak three languages? So what? You aren't a rarity in China. Among college graduates, I'm pretty sure there are a lot more multilingual speakers in China than Canada. That's because Chinese students tend to put a lot more value into learning English and at least another foreign language.

12 years experience is good but again, I don't know if it will give you 150k US dollar unless as others have said, you are at a high level management or executive level.

Also regarding your car question. There are a lot of foreign higher class cars like Audi (quit popular among the rich) in China. Do you really need to drive an imported luxury car?

[fentom]

Well guys I have some news

This company/recruiter asked me if I am willing to negotiate my salary around 240k by year, BUT CHINESE CURRENCY!

This is almost 4 times less the salary I was expected and 2.5 less my actual salary.

I rejected and quit my candidature to any position.

So, for everyone that would like to know, that is the salary that are offering.

Regards

Fentom

[jbradfor]

RMB 20,000 a month? Does that include housing allowance?

I don't think many people here are surprised at that, if you look back to what was said.

[renzhe]

That's two to four times what a university professor earns. Just to put it into perspective.

[imron]

And probably a good 10 times the average wage.

[sthubbar]

My faith is reality is restored with the 240k CNY salary figure. That is exactly what I would expect.

[fentom]

That salary could be great for people that live there and has everything.

But for foreign people, that actually are earnings double salary, is not such a good deal.

We did not talk about relocation, living allowance, bonus and benefits

So I do not know WHAT they have in mind or IF they will offer something

I do not think that they can reach foreign engineers with that salary, which is almost 35000 USD and ANY engineer here is earning at least 55000 after graduate.

That is my feeling

[jbradfor]

Or at least, they can't reach any foreign engineer that (i) doesn't understand cost-of-living differences, and (ii) values only salary, and doesn't value doing something because it is interesting, different, or a good experience.

[yonglin]

As an economist, I get a little bit frustrated when people compare quantities of money on a market-exchange rate basis, completely ignoring the fact that many things are a lot cheaper in China than in, say, the US or Canada. A better (although not perfect) measure would be to compare the salaries based on purchasing power. According to this page, you may want to multiply the 240k figure by 5 to get a feeling for what this will actually be able to buy you in China. Of course, some things are dirt cheap in China, whilst others are relatively more expensive, and if you're looking for an expatriate life-style, you might consume more of the latter. So just hypothetically, let's cut that 5 in half for fentom's purchasing power.

and 2.5 less my actual salary.

Oh... looks like someone's being paid his market price!

Add the benefits mentioned by studentyoung and the fact that some people want to relocate to experience new and exciting things (as opposed to money only), I cannot see that this company will have any major problems in recruiting foreign engineers.

[renzhe]

Can you get $150k a year in Uruguay?