Sonja Posted June 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM Report Posted June 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM Hey! I am already sorry, if this is not the best forum for my question, but honestly I am getting a nervous breakdown if I won't translate these sentences. Before I start: I am German, and my English is not the best, but I will understand your answers! So, this text I am translating (it is for a homework) is about a Ming Pirate called Wu Ping. The text is an excerpt of the Local Gazateer of Nan'ao, an island at the eastern coast of Guandong, and the copy from 1783 is really bad. I cannot read some characters and - that is the worst part - the text has no punctuation! The beginning is quite okay, it starts like " Wu Ping 吴平is a man from Zhaoan, he is little and clever. Once he was a slave, than he flew [...] ! So I will paste the part I do not understand now. And some Information I already have. "平"集百餘艘踞"深澳"筑寨自守或言東界人欲導劫其營 "平" 怒欲分黨掠之方發舟适大遇大将 "戚继光" 探兵都司 "傅应嘉" 与战获二舟既又降其黨涂禮 "继光"令为導使 "应嘉" 从之由 "宰猪澳" 間道搗其穴 平 急乃以小艇渡陳塘殺兵夫奪其旗號衣甲遁出汤溪官兵迫者困卧道傍以为兵也平逐乗渔舟徑奔 海岛後不知所終 "平" means Wu Ping "深澳" a bay at Nan'ao Island "戚继光" and "继光" Name of a Ming general "傅应嘉" and "应嘉" Name of Ming general "宰猪澳" a ba at Nan'ao island there might be other place names in the text, like 東界人 - either it means something like " People of the eastern boundaries " of "people of Dongjie". the first sentence i would translate: Ping collected more than hundred ships, occupied Shenao, built a camp and guarded it by himself... Am i right ? I realy would appreciate your help! I will go to bed now ( it is two o'clock in the morning) and hope there will be many, many answers tomorrow! THANKS! SONJA Quote
semantic nuance Posted June 16, 2009 at 05:48 AM Report Posted June 16, 2009 at 05:48 AM Perhaps this introduction of 明滅吳平之戰 can be of a bit help. Hope it helps! Quote
studentyoung Posted June 16, 2009 at 07:54 AM Report Posted June 16, 2009 at 07:54 AM (edited) that is the worst part - the text has no punctuation! Is it part of your homework to break the text into sentence? I guess that the text below is the event you’re talking about. 《南澳县志卷》十四饶平陈光烈梅湖纂 征 抚 吴 平 …… 四十四年，把总朱日玑、王豪督兵攻之，均败殁，其焰益炽，破梅州土围。五月，厚广土围续被攻陷。六月，紏党数千围攻诏安县城，烧毁木栅及西门外一带民房，知县梁士楚御却之。事闻，诏闽、广二省会兵剿捕，闽抚汪道昆檄总兵戚继光进剿。师至漳浦，平得报，集船百余艘，弃梅岭，浮海窜入南澳，筑砦于深澳之东以自保。继光至梅岭，仅获平枭党陈进卿，献于军门。或言东界人欲导官军劫其砦，平怒，即分党往掠。方发舟十余先行，猝遇继光所部都司傅应嘉哨海，与战。平败，应嘉获其二舟。既又降其党涂礼，继光使为导，令应嘉从之进，由宰猪澳间道捣其巢，俘斩万五千人。平以小艇遁，西渡陈塘，窜扰凤凰寨，杀兵伕夺其衣甲，绕出汤溪。官兵追至，平等著官兵号衣困卧道傍，官兵以为兵伕也，不之捕。兵过，平遂得脱，奔樟林掠船出海，复啸聚岛上。把总许瀚计招平党林逢阳，欲以擒平，詎为平所觉，北遁至兴化迷洲山中（迷洲当为湄洲），贼伙棹渔舟载之远逸。应嘉及瀚从副总兵汤克宽追平至阳江岛猪洋，復大败之。 是冬，平窘，奔入钦廉界，一路仍剽刦。克宽紧追，平走龙门。明年二月，遁入安南。克宽遂北至交阯洋，不获而还。后莫知所终。 http://cache.baidu.com/c?m=9d78d513d9d431ab4f9ee4690c66c0166f43f7662bd6a0020ede8439e3701c011969b9fd61600705a0d8612244ea5e5c9da16928724937b7ec99d515c0edd63f28fc6775310b863641925bb8ca3264d621e610b3e946b9adf036c3f38193890f05dd52737997f08f015603cb19f61026e3a2db1b400807bb9b3161&p=85759a47c89706fc57ead30c4b&user=baidu Is it clear enough for you to understand your original text, or do you still need help? the first sentence i would translate: Ping collected more than hundred ships, occupied Shenao, built a camp and guarded it by himself... Am i right ? Right. there might be other place names in the text, like 東界人 - either it means something like " People of the eastern boundaries " of "people of Dongjie". There was such a proverb, that “欲知京中事，须问东里人（即：东界人）If you want to know things happen in the capital, you should ask people from Dongli.” Dongli (aka 上东村) is a village in Raoping county, Guangdong Province. Quite a lot of local people got to be an official from this village. But according to the contexts, 东界人 here means officials from the central government. http://baike.baidu.com/view/1560908.htm Cheers! Edited June 16, 2009 at 08:20 AM by studentyoung Quote
Sonja Posted June 16, 2009 at 03:46 PM Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 at 03:46 PM Thank you guys for your help! I am truly grateful! Of course, I googled the topic before, but for me, as my reading skills in chinese aren't very good, I sometimes miss things that might help. By the way, are you chinese or are you foreigners with perfect chinese skills? Is it part of your homework to break the text into sentence? no, actually my homework was to write an essy about the island of Nan'ao during the Ming period, by searching original sources, translating them and interpret them. I have to translate word by word more or less and my prof will read it, so I cannot really skip parts of text I do not understand. And as I said before, the copy was a microfiche version of a 1783 print. I already assumed it misses some words. But I am always a little insecure when I translate something, especially if there is no punctuation, cause I don't know where I have to beginn, and where a sentence stops. So the text and the link you have send me was a big help. It is much easier to translate a text if you have a clue whats written in it. There was such a proverb, that “欲知京中事，须问东里人（即：东界人）If you want to know things happen in the capital, you should ask people from Dongli.” Dongli (aka 上东村) is a village in Raoping county, Guangdong Province. Yeah, I read about Dongli before and I thougt about this as well! I don't want to be rude, but I have another question, concerning one sentence of the Chouhai tubian 筹海图编 (1562) by Zheng Ruozeng. The following part I wanted to translate: 广福人以四方客货预藏于民家, 倭至售之, 倭人但有银置货, 不似西洋人载货而来换货而去也, 故中国欲知倭寇消息, 但令人往南澳, 饰为商人, 与之交易, 即廉得其来与不来, 与来数之多寡, 而一年之内, 事情无不知矣. I guess it starts like: The People of Guangzhou and Fujian take the goods of the foreigners and store/hide them in the houses of the private people (sorry, my german translation sounds somehow better), when they sell the [the goods] to the Wo (Japanese), the Wo only have silver to pay, its different with the merchants from the west, the have loaded goods, come, exchange goods and go again. Because china wanted to know about the Wokou (japanese pirates), they made someone go to Nan'ao, pretend himself being a merchant and trade with them.... BUT THEN.... Someone ist honest??? someone comes and goes , the amount of the people which comes??? within one year, every matter is known....? I don't know how tu put it right! wow, this is a long one... So again, thank you! If you ever need help with German:D, just send me a message and I try my best, otherwise I do know a little about chinese archaeology... Sonja Quote
studentyoung Posted June 17, 2009 at 07:29 AM Report Posted June 17, 2009 at 07:29 AM 广福人以四方客货预藏于民家, 倭至售之, 倭人但有银置货, 不似西洋人载货而来换货而去也, 故中国欲知倭寇消息, 但令人往南澳, 饰为商人, 与之交易, 即廉得其来与不来, 与来数之多寡, 而一年之内, 事情无不知矣.I guess it starts like: The People of Guangzhou and Fujian take the goods of the foreigners and store/hide them in the houses of the private people (sorry, my german translation sounds somehow better), when they sell the [the goods] to the Wo (Japanese), the Wo only have silver to pay, its different with the merchants from the west, the have loaded goods, come, exchange goods and go again. Because china wanted to know about the Wokou (japanese pirates), they made someone go to Nan'ao, pretend himself being a merchant and trade with them.... BUT THEN.... Someone ist honest??? someone comes and goes , the amount of the people which comes??? within one year, every matter is known....? I don't know how tu put it right! 广福人以四方客货预藏于民家 广福人：People from Guangdong and Fujian 四方客货: goods (made or got) from everywhere 预藏于民家: stored in common people’s houses People from Guangdong and Fujian stored goods from everywhere in commom people's house. 故中国欲知倭寇消息 So, if Chinese government wanted to know Wokou (Japanese Pirates)’s situation 即廉得其来与不来,与来数之多寡 廉 here doesn’t mean “honest”, but a verb, which means “inquire or investigate ” and then can investigate whether they (Japanese pirates) come or not, and how many will come. If you ever need help with German:D just send me a message and I try my best, Thank you so much in advance! otherwise I do know a little about chinese archaeology... Like Johan Gunnar Andersson, I guess? Hehe. Cheers! Quote
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