bronze censer seal mark

[itchy]

any ideas on the mark on this bronze censer?

thanks!

[skylee]

It's “玉堂清玩”.

Something like this? -> http://trade.findart.com.cn/jygood-16726-62eb58bdea509cdd7e117887b1ee1a0e-show.html?key=%E7%8E%89%E5%A0%82%E6%B8%85%E7%8E%A9

[itchy]

thank you, do you have a correct english translation,

google says ''Yutang play-money'' which doesnt make sense.

the one in the link is a modern copy unfortunately, not ming.

mine is genuine.

[skylee]

I don't know why but when I google I usually find things that are useful.

I googled "yu tang qing wan" and found this translation -> elegant collection of the Jade Hall.

Hope it's useful.

[studentyoung]

google says ''Yutang play-money'' which doesnt make sense.

the one in the link is a modern copy unfortunately, not ming.

mine is genuine.

Yutang / 玉堂is the nickname of Yan, Donglou (严东楼, aka 严世藩), who was Yan Song (one of the notorious high-rank officers in Ming Dynasty )’s son.清玩 means elegant collections.

It was said that bronze ware with the mark of “Yu tang qing wan” was made and owned by Yan Song & Yan Donglou. In fact, that’s wrong. Yans’ got their bronze wares made in Xuande (宣德) period. Some elegant and well-made bronze wares with the mark of “Yu tang qing wan” were made in early Qing Dynasty.

You said yours is genuine. May I ask you (I hope you don’t mind) why you’re so sure that your is genuine?

Cheers!

Edited June 26, 2009 at 07:03 AM by studentyoung

[skylee]

studentyoung, why did you use 珍玩/zhen wan? I think it reads 清玩. Is 清 here the same as 珍 (just as 大吉羊 = 大吉祥 on another thread)? Or have I simply misread the word?

The OP's claim that his is an original makes me think that if he has the money to collect original chinese antiques, perhaps he could hire someone to translate things for him. This way at least someone gets paid for the service.

[studentyoung]

studentyoung, why did you use 珍玩/zhen wan? I think it reads 清玩. Is 清 here the same as 珍 (just as 大吉羊 = 大吉祥 on another thread)? Or have I simply misread the word?

Skylee, you didn’t misread the word, but that's just my typo. And I have corrected my previous post.

The OP's claim that his is an original makes me think that if he has the money to collect original chinese antiques, perhaps he could hire someone to translate things for him. This way at least someone gets paid for the service.

That’s another thing puzzles me, either.

Cheers!

[HashiriKata]

That’s another thing puzzles me, either.

It puzzles me as well.

(Say "That’s another thing that puzzles me as well." )

[itchy]

hello, thank you for the help in translating my censer.

I am a collector of chinese art for over 20 years and have bought

many items. I always bought items with unuusual marks or

inscriptions after i acquired most imperial reign marks.

the censer is not a ming original but certainly 18thc at the latest qianlong -

the one linked is one of the many fake chinese bronzes made today

in china.

My knowledge of chinese characters is limited to reign marks and some

hallmarks found in books.

If someone can recommend a program for me to somehow trace in chinese characters

or by number of strokes?? i will not poston here if it is against the spirit of the forum.

im sorry if i have angered people by posting my collection and asking for help.

[roddy]

You're welcome to keep posting, but it would be interesting if you'd post more information about the pieces - a picture or two of the whole thing, an explanation of what it is, historical significance, how you came to own it, etc.