Taboo about walking under someone's legs

[Guoke]

I believe nobody wants his/her 裙底风光 to be 偷窥ed, irrespective of his/her ethnic origin.

[renzhe]

You're overanalyzing this.

I imagine that people would consider it impolite in many places to stick their legs over somebody's head and then expect them to pass under them. It would certainly be considered impolite in Germany and much of Europe, and not because of a taboo or some logical inference.

I think the events on the train, and to some extent this discussion, illustrate continuing 'cultural' closure. There are enough concrete sources of international conflict (resources, treatment of ethnic groups...) All cultures insist on 入乡随俗 to some extent, but it strikes me that the ones that are relaxed about it avoid conflict and benefit from contact with other cultures.

Yup, you're definitely overanalyzing this.

[Lu]

After Isela's post, I started thinking about the situation too, and realized that I wouldn't like it either. Can't really say why, something about how the aisle is public space, not someone's couch. It's similar to having to step over someone's extended legs. And I'm European.

Travel is getting faster and more people move through different cultures, but that doesn't mean one doesn't have to follow the rules of the land, or at least make a serious attempt to. That goes in London as well as in Hong Kong, and definitely on a Chinese train. This forum has its own rules, and I think one of them is 'don't forget there are people from different countries, cultures and languages here'.

[onebir]

It would certainly be considered impolite in Germany and much of Europe, and not because of a taboo or some logical inference.

Have you been on a hard sleeper train? The top bunks are very high way off the floor. No-one had to dip their head - which in any case I've seen Chinese people do voluntarily with no qualms, for example when walking in front of a screen. I'd guess no one's head had to come within 30cm of my legs. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be considered impolite in the UK.

Travel is getting faster and more people move through different cultures, but that doesn't mean one doesn't have to follow the rules of the land, or at least make a serious attempt to.

You've missed my point. To spell it out: modern communication &/ coexistence of significant populations from different cultural backgrounds make the concept of the "land" of the interaction unclear &/ arbitrary.

入乡随俗 is a simple rule of thumb, but it has several serious disadvantages: it puts the entire informational onus on outsiders, & leaves them at risk of being deliberately misled by unscrupulous people regarding rules they haven't had a chance to observe in action. Because of these weaknesses, t also strikes me as at odds with the concept of 'hospitality'.

It's similar to having to step over someone's extended legs.

It's different in a number of ways. If you have to step over someone's extended legs - which happens quite a bit in China, with no commotion - you

a) have to deliberately make extra effort because of someone's inconsiderate body position

B) may compromise your balance, especially on a train

c) perhaps psychologically expose yourself to a kick in the crotch.

Passing under someone's legs (when they're sufficiently high & firmly wedged against a luggage rack) involves none of these factors.

Yup, you're definitely overanalyzing this.

Chacun ses goûts.

[gougou]

入乡随俗 is a simple rule of thumb, but it has several serious disadvantages: it puts the entire informational onus on outsiders, & leaves them at risk of being deliberately misled by unscrupulous people regarding rules they haven't had a chance to observe in action. Because of these weaknesses, t also strikes me as at odds with the concept of 'hospitality'.

Of course it's just a rule of thumb, not a law. You're still expected to use good judgement (e.g. few people would expect you to start spitting just because some people in China do).

Have you already thought about what you are going to do next time you're on a train? Would you still put your feet on the luggage rack?

[stoney]

Maybe I shouldn't play this game with my Chinese friends!

[onebir]

Have you already thought about what you are going to do next time you're on a train? Would you still put your feet on the luggage rack?

Yes, but it created quite a lot of hostility - without me even noticing, since I was reading - I'd do it with caution.

I would like to talk to people who don't like it about why. I'm curious what people quoting 胯下之辱 wiould say if I pointed out that no one had to go under my 胯 (as I understand it, inguinal crease area).

I'd also like to ask how 入乡随俗 is compatible with 我们中国的五千年的历史和文化, and我们中国人对外国人非常好客 - two comments I frequently hear in one form or another.. If you make the complexity of your culture a badge of pride, how can expecting poor foreigners to follow it to the letter be hospitable?

Maybe I shouldn't play this game with my Chinese friends!

It turns out the Chinese name for Twister is 扭扭乐. Played with friends, (in privacy?), this seems perfectly acceptable. Google for it & you'll find 1.97m hits & plenty of pics of genuine 胯下 - as opposed to 膝 or 大腿下 - situations.

Perhaps buried within them are condemnations of the game's tendency to incite 胯下之辱, incompatibility with 中国文化...

I think this supports my claim that interpretation of this taboo is heavily contextual. (& if it wasn't China wouldn't be anywhere near as populous...)

[HashiriKata]

onebir, you seem to have taken the problem into far more complicated directions than it needs be. Chinese people, and people in many other countries, simply don't like walking under some stranger's feet, and that is that. All you have to do is to remember this simple fact and get on with it.