Middlekingdom website for English teachers

[Madot]

Is anyone familiar with this website: http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/ ?

It seems to have some very authoritative advice, professional, etc., but on the other hand, lots of the stuff about living in China seems AWFULLY out of date to me (and the last time I was in China was 3 years ago). Any comments from anyone familiar with the site will be really appreciated.

Mado

[muyongshi]

Well it looks like it's copyrighted for 2008 and it has a comment from somebody praising the website and that was dated 2009.

Looks like an interesting site. It takes a pretty straightforward stereotypical approach [at least that's how it appears to me] in talking about life in China.

[roddy]

Kdavid's linked to that site a couple of times, think he rates it quite highly. Haven't really looked at it myself. What are you seeing that seems out of date?

[muyongshi]

And for a good laugh look at the keywords in the meta data. I was a bit surprised by the last two, just seemed a bit off but it got me wondering and then I went back and they have a ummm VERY extensive section of sex, dating and relationships. And very thorough I might add. Very odd in some ways. I know relationships are a big part of peoples lives and technically fall under living here but it almost seems that they went a bit overboard and off topic in my opinion in that section.

[roddy]

I noticed that in the popular articles list, but figured it was maybe just what people liked to read, rather than a tendency of the site itself.

[muyongshi]

Well if the general topics that get discussed here are any indication- yeah it's what people like to read. I guess I just found it interesting that they added the "chinese women, chinese girls" to their meta keywords.

[Madot]

Thanks for the quick reply, guys!

Roddy, I was thinking of the comments about technical stuff, e.g. extremely slow internet speed and HOPEFULLY stuff about medical care. My own experience was very different but I do realise that I was in Beijing and since I won't be this time, it made me a bit edgy. But also little comments like: women who smoke are generally considered prostitutes. I mean, I'm not a smoker, nor, at my age, likely to be taken for a lady of the night, but those sorts of comments make me wonder about the reliability of the rest.

Mado

[kdavid]

I think it's a very informative website which sheds a lot of light on life in China for those teaching English.

Any prospective teacher who can read through their entire "guide" and still want to teach here should do very well.

The only issue I have is that it takes an overall slightly negative view on teaching in China, and forgoes discussing many of the positives.

The objective at times seems to be to use "scared straight" tactics to show potential teachers what such a "hard knox" life is to be expected.

If life here was as bad as the website sometimes makes it sound, then there wouldn't be so many expats staying here long term, nor such a massive influx of new teachers arriving each year.

[roddy]

It's ok, you're foreign. They'll just assume you're mad:wink:

Looks like the authors have spent the bulk of their time in Hainan, might explain why - despite being a tropical paradise, it's one of China's smaller, poorer and less developed provinces - comparable with er . . Syria.

Plenty of chain-smoking, fast-Internet using women here in Beijing, anyway.

[imron]

women who smoke are generally considered prostitutes.

Although not necessarily an indication of being a prostitute, there is a perception in many parts of mainland China that women who smoke (and/or drink regularly) are "bad".

I've read a few articles on the site, and what I read was more-or-less in line with my experiences in China. It's probably less relevant for larger cities, but generally quite reliable (although sometimes a little blunt).

[Madot]

This is SO interesting. When I was in China as representative of an Australian university, I gained a GREAT deal of 'kudos' (face?) by keeping up with my Chinese academic colleagues in the drinking department as shown at banquets. I am not sure how to deconstruct this. "She's a foreigner, so who the Hell knows WHAT she does?" or "She's a foreigner and foreign women, especially foreign professional women, in their own culture are SUPPOSED to be the same as professional men, so maybe we should judge her on the same standards as we judge males?"

I haven't gone into the issue of smoking, or being perceived of as 'bad', but the question is: will being perceived of as 'bad' (though foreign) raise or lower my 'face' as a foreign expert?

Conservative by nature, I am not about to 'try this on', but I am wondering what you all think about the issue. We know (sort of) how a Chinese person gains or loses 'face', but what about foreigners? And in particular, what about foreign women?

Mado

[imron]

As a foreigner you are not subject to the same socials norms, but generally, at least in more northern areas, if you show that you can drink you will be encouraged and won't come under the same criticism or innuendo that a local Chinese woman would receive. The same will be true of smoking. Out of curiosity, how many females were there among the Chinese academic colleagues you were drinking with, and how much were they drinking compared to either yourself or your male colleagues?

[gato]

Looks like the authors have spent the bulk of their time in Hainan

Is that right? It looks like the "main" author is teaching in Guangzhou right now.

http://mavrides.net/

Dr. Gregory Mavrides is an American psychoanalytically-oriented mental health professional born, raised and educated in New York.

His academic experience includes teaching positions at Columbia University, the University of South Carolina, Barry University in North Miami and, currently, Jinan University's International School, Department of Clinical Medicine in Guangzhou where he is teaching courses in medical psychology, mental health, statistics, and medical ethics.

He is the author of several professional articles, symposia presentations, and APA PsycCRITIQUES book reviews, in addition to serving as the principal author of the comprehensive e-book Foreign Teachers’ Guide to Living and Teaching English in China.

[Madot]

Well, there were two occasions. On the first, the only other female present was the interpreter. On the second, I was the highest ranking female academic present and there were no other foreign academics, though there were a few female Chinese academics of lower rank. The President of the University started what I didn't know then, but soon realised, was a baijiu drinking contest. They would each individually propose a toast and the proposer of the toast would drink the entire (small) glass. The recipient (me) was expected to do the same, though some of the others, especially the females, could get away with a symbolic sip. Of course the recipient of the toast was expected to return the toast and gan bei! Eventually, of course, I also resorted to the symbolic sip. (After all, I didn't want to disgrace myself!) But great compliments were made of the fact that for a while, at least, I 'kept up' with my colleagues. I understand that this is very common behaviour among groups of males but had not expected it to happen to me as a female. It was quite surreal.

Maybe this time I should try smoking... :-)

Mado

Edited July 8, 2009 at 10:34 AM by Madot
mis-spelling

[leeyah]

In some countries small boys are given sips of alcoholic drinks and this is praised as an act of great courage. Their kudos to your keeping up with male colleagues most likely carries the same connotation. Also the racial thing: Asians on the whole don't have stomachs for alcohol, even males get drunk after a few sips. But you are not Asian, suppose they were just curious...

[roddy]

I suspect Leeyah may be over-analysing things. More likely they're just bored out of their skull at yet another banquet, nobody really knows what to say as it's a bit too formal, and the easiest thing to do is a) toast people and B) superpraise the parts of the most likely target, both of which are quite ritualized. You'd have got kudos for something - it could have been your Chinese, your drinking, your anecdotes, your contribution to global harmony - regardless.

[Senzhi]

I haven't gone into the issue of smoking, or being perceived of as 'bad', but the question is: will being perceived of as 'bad' (though foreign) raise or lower my 'face' as a foreign expert?

Here in Shantou, I can confirm that the only women I see smoking is in the area where I live and that is ... the local red light district. What their job or hobby is, is up for interpretation.

Also here, as a foreign female teacher smoking, you wouldn't last long in your job.

I smoke (heavily, I admit) and I offer cigarettes when I feel like smoking. Unlike my Chinese male friends, I offer them equally to men and women. Never has any Chinese woman accepted a cigarette from me.

As others have mentioned above, the original article was indeed written from a more traditional perspective ... and may not be valid for the more modern cities. However, I can understand the "better safe than sorry" aproach.

[Madot]

That's what I'm really interested in! In fact, I am not a smoker. On occasion (we're talking about maybe once in 2 years), I accept a 'social' cigarette. I was wondering to what extent the offering and receiving of cigarettes -as a kind of ritual face-giving --as mentioned on the Middlekingdom website-- would affect me as a foreign woman. According to the site, women are simply not part of that ritual, and what you say seems to confirm that. I wasn't sure whether this was up-to-date information or whether I should offer male Chinese colleagues cigarettes.

I should explain that my situation will be somewhat different from the usual English teacher. I will NOT be teaching English, but rather language-teaching methods and in addition to teaching these to final year students at a Teachers' College, I have also been asked to give several lectures to the professors on this topic. I realise that, while putting me in a very 'respected' position, it also raises all sorts of delicate status issues. ("The President of the College wants it but who is this foreigner to tell us how to teach?"--sort of issues), so I know I need to be careful about giving face and any strategy which anyone can suggest will be greatly appreciated. It appears from the above, that offering cigarettes may not be the way to go and possibly not keeping up with colleagues' drinking either, so any suggestions???

RODDY, IF YOU THINK THIS QUESTION SHOULD BE A SEPARATE THREAD, FEEL FREE...

Mado

[kdavid]

I was wondering to what extent the offering and receiving of cigarettes -as a kind of ritual face-giving --as mentioned on the Middlekingdom website-- would affect me as a foreign woman.

Knowing what I know , I would not smoke in front of anyone I wanted any respect from as a woman.

You also mention that you're a "social" smoker. If you are offered a cigarette from one person, and decline another one later, you'll very likely lose face with the second person. As such, if you accept one, be prepared to accept many, many more throughout the rest of the evening.

If you don't want to smoke at all, don't accept any. The polite form of doing this (with alcohol as well) is simply to respond, "I can't".

I should explain that my situation will be somewhat different from the usual English teacher. I will NOT be teaching English, but rather language-teaching methods and in addition to teaching these to final year students at a Teachers' College, I have also been asked to give several lectures to the professors on this topic.

You need to be very, very careful about this. I've encountered very few Chinese that could participate in a serious academic discussion in fluent English. I think it would be a mistake to think that you'll be speaking to people with native-like English. As such, be careful on the jargon and terminology used and prepare things for a very low level of learner. You should also assume the "professors" themselves will also have a very low level.

[Madot]

Yes, quite right! I have gone over and over and over, editing each time for simplicity. And exmaples and demonstrations rather than explanations. I have been to this College before and professors' use of interpreters, rather than using the English that they 'teach', sort of gave the game away. I will have to be very careful of the level of English. Thanks for the reminder.

Mado