Another tattoo issue..

[Cnotes]

Sorry about this because I hate to come here and as a first post bother you all about this, but my boyfriend is getting a tattoo and he wants chinese characters, particularly the one in the picture i attached. ive been arguing with him about it and telling him not to get this.

He thinks it says "First class", as in, he is a first class person.. You know like.. first class on planes and cruise ships. very narcissistic of him but he seems dead set on getting it, so whatever, but i want to make sure it means what he wants it to mean before he gets stuck with it.

thanks for your help

[renzhe]

It does mean "First class", but I don't think it makes for a good tattoo. I don't even know if it can refer to a person. Most likely, people would think he's a separee or a cabin.

[adrianlondon]

Yeah, the concept of "first class" in Chinese probably doesn't translate into people. It'd be like having "business class" as a tattoo, or maybe even "quiet zone, no mobiles"

[HashiriKata]

I don't even know if it can refer to a person

Yes, 頭等 can be used for both people and things no problems.

[skylee]

Yes, 頭等 can be used for both people and things no problems.

I don't think it is used to describe people. I think usually top-notched people are described as 頂尖, 一流, etc.

[Guoke]

I can't help recommending "獨孤求敗" to your boyfriend...

[HashiriKata]

I don't think it is used to describe people.

I've tried the internet and there are examples like 头等的人,头等的人物, etc. So, it must be possible to use for people.

(PS: Interestingly, one very bold statement:

我們中國頭等的人物，倒去住他們美國的二等房間。

seems to be from a website called "Made in Hongkong" )

[eeraser]

我們中國頭等的人物，倒去住他們美國的二等房間

Ha ha, if it wasn't so funny, I might have been offended!

[HashiriKata]

我們中國頭等的人物，倒去住他們美國的二等房間。

This could be the reason why skylee never wants to visit the USA. Is this right, skylee?

[Cnotes]

I don't think it is used to describe people. I think usually top-notched people are described as 頂尖, 一流, etc.

I can't view chinese characters for whatever reason on my computer. They come up as boxes with numbers in them. I only know basic chinese, which is why I couldn't help him but I knew enough to think that he shouldn't get it. What are the characters you used? Just give me the pinyin please because I can't view the characters in text format and I'm not sure why.

[skylee]

HashiriKata, I don't know how to fight back your attack (I note that there is a smiley but it doesn't mean that it is not an attack). But it doesn't matter.

Who cares if there is a westerner with 頭等 tattooed on his body?

[renzhe]

I can't view chinese characters for whatever reason on my computer. They come up as boxes with numbers in them. I only know basic chinese, which is why I couldn't help him but I knew enough to think that he shouldn't get it. What are the characters you used? Just give me the pinyin please because I can't view the characters in text format and I'm not sure why.

You probably need to install Asian fonts.

The words she used were dǐngjiān and yìliú. If your Chinese is basic, it's likely that you're not familiar with them.

[HashiriKata]

Cnotes, the word in my posts is 頭等 (toudeng), the same as the one in your post.

Skylee, I'm sorry that you see my posts as an attack on you, but still, it's up to you how to interpret what you see.

[jbradfor]

Skylee, you should take it as a compliment! HashiriKata is calling you a 頭等的人物!

[HashiriKata]

Thanks jbradfor, but never mind, it's just another tattoo issue (as the heading has it )

Back to the topic, I've come across a good example of the use of 頭等:

头等的队伍，头等的技术，头等的设备，头等的材料，都要上去。

(First class teams, first class technology, first class facilities, first class materials, all need to improve)

[leeyah]

I'm not sure this word is appropriate to use on people, the first character 頭 or 头 means "head" but it is usually used for animals and the 'head' part of things. Chinese language rarely uses 'head' in the sense of 'leading', 'number one' when referring to people (but there's 黑帮头人 = Triad Boss), so...

Actually, it is difficult to explain this since you're not familiar with the language, but the phrase since ancient times referred to boats (Shuihuchuan has it) and is nowadays used for aircraft, and many other "things" to do with first class service, hence toudengfuwu 头等服务, toudengduiwu头等队伍,etc.

It futher spread to mean top class visit toudengfangwen头等访问, top class affair toudengdashi 头等大事, supreme (military) force toudengzhuli 头等主力,top prize toujiang 头等奖, etc, but used directly on people it does carry a slightly ridiculing connotation, targeting people who think they are better then the rest, while in fact they are not. There's this article on seating re-arrangement of moneyed movie star guests aboard a plane, where they were labelled "头等人" in the negative sense. It is also seen in commercials but the connotation is still dodgy and perhaps it's not exactly a good choice for a tattoo.

Anyway, if your boyfriend is so keen on boosting his ego with an Oriental tattoo, you can use the Chinese transliteration of Japanese word for "No.1" ichiban : 一级棒, where 一级 means first class & 棒 means outstanding, the best , or even better, if he's not set on a Chinese-only tattoo, then why not use the Japanese version as in ichiban: 一番. (一 is 1 & 番 means class, sort in both Japanese & Chinese) It is often used as tattoo, to check it out just type number one in search box @ http://www.orientaloutpost.com/ and you'll get the explanation. Here's the pic:

Edited July 12, 2009 at 05:46 PM by leeyah
never say 'never'... ;)

[HashiriKata]

Leeyah, your recommendation of 一番 is good, if the OP's boyfriend likes a Japanese tattoo. However, that is not the licence to say that the use of 头等 for people is intended to be negative. Here is an example where 头等 is used, and it would be against all reasonable reasons () to say that it is used negatively:

cheese是19世纪的英语俚语，表示“正确的事情，合适的东西，头等的人或事物”

[leeyah]

your recommendation of 一番 is good, if the OP's boyfriend likes a Japanese tattoo

Thank you

that is not the licence to say that the use of 头等 for people is intended to be negative

Words are powerful tools. And OP just wants to make sure they get the meaning of the word 頭等 right.

Anyway, there's basic meaning to a character and then there's the deeper connotation (含义) that the character conveys, that's all there is to it. Context also counts. But we're talking a tattoo here, something which a person will have displayed on his body for a long time, and there's no room for mistakes or speculations.

Considering the idea of whether or not to express top class with 头等, tattooing the character 牛 for Ox, as in cattle, or as Chinese Zodiac sign, would look just as good The character 牛 (niu) used to have a negative connotation when used on persons a decade or so back, but now it is used as hip-word to mean top class, the best of the best. It's a compliment and no one gets hurt. There's also 酷牛, super cool (brutal ox?! ) ...

But, joking aside, if OP's boyfriend happens to be born in the year of the Dragon, and wants a genuine Chinese tattoo, perhaps he should consider this as an option, rather than speculate with more complex Chinese words. Dragon is THE No.1 in Chinese mythology, only thing is I'm not sure what the Chinese would think of laowais with dragon stuff on their laowai bodies...

Basically, I am against 头等 as a tattoo, that's all.

[HashiriKata]

Basically, I am against 头等 as a tattoo, that's all.

I see, so this is what you have been about, and not about whether 头等 can be used of people as such? All my posts so far have been consistently trying to maintain just what I said in my first post (ie. "頭等 can be used for both people and things no problems"), so we have been talking to ourseves then?

Well, it's time I shut up, and cheers!

[isela]

Eh...

Actually, "头等" appears to me just like "Super", "Champion" etc, nothing weird and just fine as a tattoo.

However, I do think I like the idea of "牛" better. If I were the guy, I'll probably get "牛人", and that'll grab tons of attentions from Chinese people surely.

Nevertheless I'm not the guy and I'll never get a tattoo. It's too painful.