On complimenting some's chinese as 準

[calibre2001]

I am curious on whether using 準 indicates that one's chinese level is indeed at native level i.e. you sound chinese when speaking. There are a couple of real-life situation that got me wondering about this.

Case1

I was talking to a Sichuannese and was remarking how 標準 her mandarin sounded. She immediately responded along the lines of 'oh, we sichuannese speak another dialect actually'. She obviously wanted me to know that standard mandarin is not her mother tongue.

Case 2

I was in a taxi with some overseas chinese (english and cantonese speakers but don't speak mandarin). They spoke to the taxi driver (native cantonese speaker) in cantonese of course. The taxi driver, in awe, complimented on how 準 their cantonese was and asked if they were from HK.

[skylee]

Perhaps it has to do with if the speaker is proud of being able to speak the language?

[Hofmann]

I think they're talking solely about phonology. They don't take into account your vocabulary, grammar, etc. So, not necessarily native level.

[Ah-Bin]

I've done an experiment with this, becasue I wondered just how bad my Mandarin pronunciation had to be before people stopped saying it was 準. So I talked to people using the best 臺灣國語 (Taiwanese-style Mandarin) I could pull off. changing shi into su like Lee Teng-hui and Ah-bian... and the result? Still 準.

Mind you this was in Nanning. In the north some people used to look down their noses at my southern accent. So in Nanning I used to reply surprised, (in Taiwanese Mandarin) that people would praise me for something that northerners didn't praise me for.

I think the 準 thing really has more to do with correct tones than other aspects of phonology. If you;re tones are correct then you will hear it. Once you start flipping your tones around you might not hear it any more, unless someone is really wanting to 拍 your 馬屁...

[Lu]

Given that I got this ever since my third year of learning Chinese, I doubt it means you sound like a native (even people mistaking you for native on the phone doesn't mean that much). Not sure what it does mean, though. When talking with southerners, they say they mean that I speak real Mainland putonghua. Actually I have a Taiwanese accent on top of a Dutch accent, so that doesn't say much either.

[renzhe]

I've heard that a couple of times and understood it to mean that the pronunciation (tones, initials, etc.) is correct.

It doesn't mean that you speak (or sound) like a native speaker, IMHO.

As to Lu's comment, people have recently been telling me that I have a Beijing accent. After two sentences, and no 儿化 at all. No idea why. Perhaps the zh, ch, sh and friends.

See, one of the advantages of being Croatian is that you have the zh, sh, ch and such "bushy" sounds down to perfection.

[Scoobyqueen]

I agree with Hoffmann. I had one person coming up to me after I gave a speech, saying that. I specifically asked him what he meant (actually because I did not understand his pronunication :-) and he clarified that the pronounciation and tones were good and gave the example of television readers (he meant that and just that since my chinese is not that good and I did not understand everything he was saying). These guys were from the South and incidentally did not speak that standard (eg zh- sounds) themselves.

[imron]

After two sentences, and no 儿化 at all.

Contrary to popular belief, 儿化 isn't the major distinguishing feature of Beijing pronunciation. Nor is it limited to just Beijing - if you crack out too much of it, they're just as likely to guess you're from Dongbei.

I can't describe what I find to be the main distinguishing feature in words, but I can hear it whenever I hear a native Beijinger speak. It's not just in zh, ch and sh either -- every single sound has that unique Beijing twang - sometimes described by others as if someone was speaking with a mouthful of water (or marbles, or both ). I'm guessing you picked it up from 奋斗 and similar

[renzhe]

Maybe.

But I'm not consciously trying to emulate that. I like speaking properly, at least when first learning a foreign language. Local accent can sneak in once you're fluent and living in a place for a while.

I pronounce things lazily in other languages too, maybe that plays a role.

My girlfriend doesn't think I have a Beijing accent (other than the occasional -ererreereer). It's just that whenever I pronounce an -er, people from the south immediately put me in Beijing

[wrbt]

I'm happy when a native speaker "throws me a 棒"

[muyongshi]

I think it's just a polite thing more than anything else and doesn't have a "specific" meaning when it relates to foreigners. Of course here in Sichuan, people always say that our {foreigners mandarin} is more 标准 than most locals. Which, to a degree is true....