Going to Hong Kong : So what's the deal with language?

[agimcomas]

Hello,

Soon I'll go to Hong Kong to study for 4 months. What is the deal with language there? Do people speak English? Do they speak Mandarin? Will I starve or struggle enormously unless I am fluent in Cantonese?

Thanks for your guidance!

[Erbse]

People there speak fluently English and Cantonese.

Mandarin is rare, and those who speak it often have a thick accent.

[phyrex]

Nope, people speak fluent Cantonese. That's it ;)

Students (and business people, I suppose) also speak fluent English, but the other people *may* be able to string a couple English words together, but I wouldn't count on it. And you can be sure that taxi drivers and restaurant personnel speak no English.

Seriously, don't expect too much from the English level in HK.

[Erbse]

phyrex, are You serious? I stayed there 4 months for work. Everyone except the oldest people could speak English.

[sebhk]

It depends on where you are in Hong Kong. In the expat and tourist enclaves most people know English. They are not necessarily fluent though. In most other areas, a lot of people speak no or only very little English (no matter what age).

Mandarin is not very popular among native Hong Kong Chinese and even Mandarin native speakers who live here permanently rarely use it in public.

If you know Mandarin, you can have a try, but make sure you don't force it on people. I have seen a lot of "Beijing educated" Americans and Europeans who just don't get a hint and insist on using Mandarin when speaking to Hong Kong people despite the uncomfortable or even annoyed looks they get.

[phyrex]

Erbse, quite serious ;)

I only stayed for two weeks, but the only times I could communicate in English were at Starbucks and when meeting with friends (who are students). Most of the other time my Mandarin speaking girlfriend could get her meaning across, but sometimes even that didn't work.

It's probably as seb says and it depends on where you are, but I can say that my trip to HK thorougly disillusioned me in regards to the attributed English skills of HK people.

[sebhk]

Agimcomas, if you are going to study in one of the local universities then the language situation is very different from the general population. There are a LOT of exchange or full-time students from mainland China. So in universities you actually can sometimes hear more Mandarin than Cantonese. Especially in the Chinese University of Hong Kong. And a lot of the mainland students speak better English than the Hong Kong students (and are more motivated to improve their language skills).

[sebhk]

phyrex, I think the English skills attributed to Hong Kong people mostly apply to the pre-1997 generation of university students. People who are in their 30s and early 40s now. Since the handover, the English skills of local students have been deteriorating a lot, because many primary and secondary schools were "encouraged" by the government to switch to Cantonese as medium of instruction and to promote the "Chinese" language. The idea was that the students' Mandarin and written Chinese skills would benefit from that policy. That plan backfired and apart from deteriorating English skills, neither Mandarin nor written Chinese skills of local students have improved.

[renzhe]

My experience is limited, but a combination of English and Mandarin covered everything that needed to be done during our short stay there.

Clearly, both were foreign languages and fluent Cantonese would have been preferable in nearly all situations.

But it's not as black as some people are painting it to be. You might have to look around for an English (or Mandarin) speaker, but you can usually find one if you need one. Especially in a hotel or a restaurant or similar service and tourist-oriented environments.

So you can survive just fine with those, but you'll likely be missing out on a lot of typical Hong Kong atmosphere and life. If I were going to live in HK for a while, I'd be learning Cantonese for sure.

[zozzen]

I only stayed for two weeks, but the only times I could communicate in English were at Starbucks and when meeting with friends (who are students).

I agree that the fluency of English differs in different classes and some people may never publicly speak english to anyone, but quite wondering where you stayed in Hong kong at that time? Even if you were in Bangkok and Ho Chi Minh City, you could speak English not just in Starbucks. I think the popularity of english in hong kong still overwhelmingly outplaces them.

Renzhe's view is more close to a real picture too. In Hong Kong, Cantonese is always preferable except in some offices, but survival with english should be okay.

In the wet market near to my home in Hong Kong, the mid-aged butcher can also speak English because he has a lot of friendly non-Chinese Asian customers. His English is lumpish ....well.... but good enough at flirting with them.

[agimcomas]

Thanks for the replies!

I also speak some Mandarin. Will I use it at all?

Regards,

[renzhe]

There are enough Mandarin speakers in Hong Kong nowadays, but I'm guessing that you'll have to seek them out. If you're looking for a practice partner, I'm sure you can find one.

As for taking care of everyday business -- if you're not a native Mandarin speaker, I'm guessing that English will be far more useful.

[Fergus_1]

I lived in Hong Kong for 10 years from 1997-2007 and found it very easy to get by in English. Hong Kongers mostly speak quite good English and are more than happy to show they can speak it, will talk in English readily. I'd argue it isn't really vital to learn Cantonese to live in Hong Kong. I hardly saw any expats talking Cantonese or trying to learn Cantonese, but in Beijing now I see many expats speaking Mandarin, which is one of the biggest differences between the two expat communities.

[phyrex]

Fascinating. Fergus, what about taxi drivers? In my two weeks there I did literally find not one taxi driver that spoke even a lick of English! Or not-so-upscale restaurants? We had problems enough there with Mandarin (and thank God that the names of the dishes were in characters). Or if you wanted to buy something in the small shops and you needed more information than the price? How did all that work out? I'm really amazed at that ^^

[agimcomas]

Hello,

Thank you for the replies. I am going to study at a University, and I am going to be surrounded by foreign students and local students alike. I am not worrying about my school life, but rather about dealing with people when purchasing transport tickets, booking hotels, and talking to school staff (like my residence employees). I lived in Beijing and the fuwuyuans spoke no English.

[phyrex]

That'll work. You might need a friend to help you now and then and especially seek out places that speak better English, but on the whole you won't have any problems..

[trien27]

Hong Kong people don't tend to speak perfect or close to perfect English even though they've been to college, university, etc... They'll tend to speak to you in broken English or better yet "Chinglish" [a combination of Chinese with English mixed in] But until they've had an education elsewhere like England or USA, then do they tend to really use a little more improved English. But still it's due to the Cantonese speaking population that they still tend to go back to their old selves again, like they've never left HK. Don't depend on HK people to speak in Mandarin anytime soon even though that's what the new gov't said. People don't tend to use English much unless they're lawyers, students, or business people doing business with people overseas but since lawyers & attorneys can have clients who speak Cantonese most of the time, there might not be a chance that they'll fight in court in

full-fledged English.

[wushijiao]

but rather about dealing with people when purchasing transport tickets, booking hotels, and talking to school staff (like my residence employees).

95% of the time, if you have a non-East Asian appearance, they will speak to you in English. And regardless of how competent HKers might be at they higher registers of English, most hotel and supermarket staff know enough English to do common transactions. Also, most signs are bilingual. So, you can get by just fine in HK with only English, in my opinion. In fact, for most people who learn Cantonese, the biggest difficulty, by far, is that everybody keeps trying to speak English to you (which is great in general, but just a bit inconvenient for those who want to learn Cantonese).

[Loriquero]

I have western aparience, went to HK for 4 days a couple of months ago, and most of the people there were willing to speak mandarin with me, Same in Macau. (where you can speak some portuguese with a few old men in restaurants)

[wushijiao]

I have western aparience, went to HK for 4 days a couple of months ago, and most of the people there were willing to speak mandarin with me, Same in Macau. (where you can speak some portuguese with a few old men in restaurants)

That's been my experence as well. Many people who work in restaurants and in the service industry in HK have pretty decent Mandarin. I think that's probably even more true for Macau, since their economy is primarily based on tourism from the Mainland.