"Typically Chinese" translations

[tooironic]

I know another game... who can come up with the most "typically Chinese" translations of Chinese words?

Off the top of my head - 干部 as "cadre" and 机关 as "organ", translations which I had never come across until I read them in Chinese translated texts. In Australia at least, we would refer to these as "official" (n.) and "department" respectively.

P.S. We should really think about creating a specific translation forum to address these kinds of posts...

[Achell A]

Well, 干部usually refers to higher grade persons than officials.

and "机关” is generally governmental, while every organization can have department

Achell

[leeyah]

Although it may sound so to Western ears, I wouldn't call these 'typically Chinese translations'.

In the early days the Chinese were under direct influence of the Soviet doctrine, and if I'm not mistaken one of the tasks was the translation of the complete new political terminology from Russian to Chinese.

So, to my knowledge, these are typically communist terms as used in the USSR: revolutionary cadres, governing organs, etc. For reference read this

You may also want to read some stuff on Chinese modern history. There was a good novel by a Western author on the story behind the Long March, can't remember the title, though, (most likely one of the novels mentioned in the link...)

[roddy]

I wouldn't want to lose cadre, useful word. Cadres are primarily Party members and sit around all day drinking tea and playing solitaire on the office PC (they can't work the Internet). Officials are primarily government employees, and sit around all day drinking tea and playing solitaire on the office PC (they can't work the Internet).

基本 - basically. I always want to translate this as 'not'.

[HashiriKata]

sit around all day drinking tea and playing solitaire on the office PC (they can't work the Internet).

This sounds very familiar , so could someone please tell me why whenever I click on the first link in leeyah's (post #3 above), my browser (IE6) simply shuts itself down? (I tried it three times and the same thing happend, a complete shut down of all pages).

[rob07]

The one I always notice is "splittist". It sounds ridiculous and I like to indulge in the conspiracy theory that it was translated that way rather than to "separatist" by a pro-Tibet Western journalist just to make the Chinese government sound stupid. Sure enough the well known pro-China broadcaster CNN puts splittist in inverted commas.

However, I've just noticed that Xinhua English will often use both splittist and separatist in the same article. Is there a difference between the two words?

[roddy]

Strictly I guess it's the difference between 分离 and 分裂. In one you're just taking yourself off to play your own game, in the other you're spoiling everyone else's fun. Here's a nice academic-looking article which I haven't read to back me up.

[leeyah]

There seems to be a difference:

splittist 分裂主义(分子)

separatist 分离主义

edit:

In one you're just taking yourself off to play your own game, in the other you're spoiling everyone else's fun

[HashiriKata]

You should get a better browser, like Mozilla Firefox (it's free ) or upgrade to IE7 (also free )

Thank you! So this must be the reason. As a typical cadre, I fear that upgrading may make things worse and stop me from playing solitaire on the PC

[tooironic]

However, I've just noticed that Xinhua English will often use both splittist and separatist in the same article. Is there a difference between the two words?

The wiktionary entry, which illustrates its etymology and example usages, looks very interesting indeed...

[renzhe]

In the early days the Chinese were under direct influence of the Soviet doctrine, and if I'm not mistaken one of the tasks was the translation of the complete new political terminology from Russian to Chinese.

Correct, they are Communist/Socialist words used across the Communist world.

If your audience is not too familiar with political language, it could be translated as "party official" or "department" or something, but the correct translations are indeed "cadre" and "organ".

See also this description.

[roddy]

Organs is a horrible word. Reading about it, it seems like the Chinese used properly should refer to branches of government - ie legislature, executive, and so on. It's jarring enough that I generally try and avoid it though. Feels like it collocates with 'donation' and 'harvesting' more than anything else. I just did a quick search through my translation folder and I've used authority, agency, institution - anything but organ.

[renzhe]

It does sound quite odd in English. In German, you have things like "Staatsorgan", which get translated into "government body". In other languages, especially in places with Leninist past, this usage is quite common.

[roddy]

So how would everyone translate this headline then?

This incidentally seems like a good place to recommend The Translator's Guide to Chinglish. It's a bit old now and the examples must seem pretty dated - they were mostly drawn from government documents anway, so they were never exactly sparkling - but the issues it discusses are still valid. It's more about the grammar than the vocab we're discussing here.

Although it's aimed at Chinese people translating into English, even native speakers of English (well, me at least) can make plenty of the mistakes covered.

[gato]

So how would everyone translate this headline then?

The infamous "Organ Cadre", isn't that how you would translate it?

[renzhe]

"Wooden organ cadre penetrates relationship"?

[msittig]

The word 'limpid' has always screamed TRANSLATION FROM CHINESE to me. Five percent of native English speakers know what it means, and the other 95% think it sounds like something really bad (limp + insipid?). And yet Chinese→English translators seem to love it.

[heifeng]

the word 'famous' gets way too much love in (awkward) C=> E translations...as soon as I hear/see that word in refering to a university or company, there's a 95% its translated from Chinese:conf

oh yeah, plus once I took a survey of my (American) coworkers (in an attempt to figure out what was still considered English these days) and none of them thought that talentS should be used to refer to people... (he/she has many talents yeah...that company is home to/is recruiting the best talents...nay)

[daofeishi]

香 as "fragrant" is one of those that I see as a quintessentially Chinese translation. Awkward collocations in general, I guess, is very Chinese, like using the word "vivid" all over the place, e.g. "Chinese is a vivid language!"

Edited July 23, 2009 at 07:08 AM by daofeishi

[renzhe]

It might not fit perfectly in here, but I've always found the ubiquitous 情况 difficult to translate without heavy reformulating.