Question with regards to native speakers and rising tones 2 and 5 for cantonese

[chinesenewbie]

Hey guys I have a question

in this video

at 1:41, when she says "玩" doesn't it sound like tone 5? Waan is supposed to be tone 2 in this case right?

I'm still trying to get my tones 2 and 5 correct on different words (I know which words are rising tones, I just, however, aren't sure whether it's supposed to be 2 or 5).

Am I right in saying she said it with a tone 5?

Similarly, in this vid at 0:23

when he said

歷史

he pronounced 史 with a tone 5 instead of 2?

Am I right in saying this? I'm not saying it's a big deal, like they probably know how to say it correctly, but sometimes in the middle of a sentence when speakign fast or whatever they might be a bit lazy to increase the pitch to make it higher?

[Yan Hoi]

No, the speakers in both video clips are native speakers and pronounced tone 2 correctly. It's just that those 2 words (玩 & 史) came at the end of a sentence and slight stress was put on them by way of prolongation of the vowels. But the pitch rise is that of tone 2, not 5.

Tone 2 in Cantonese is identical to tone 2 in Mandarin. But Cantonese tone 5, although also a rising tone, rises in pitch less than tone 2 and is readily recognisable to the native ear.

[chinesenewbie]

really?

I thought tone 2 was supposed to be higher than the examples in the two videos. I'm sure i've heard it with a higher pitch, and heard tone 5 words (like si5 "city" ) spoken with the pitch in those 2 videos.

I guess my ears are not as attuned to this as I thought. I swear I've heard tone 2 higher than that.

Edited August 13, 2009 at 10:17 PM by chinesenewbie

[chinesenewbie]

Small request.

Would it be possible for a native speaker to post a recording of them saying the following:

歷史, 城市, 史市, 市史, 落雨, 落魚, 乳頭, 魚頭, 魚雨, 雨魚

thanks so much!

[skylee]

At the OP's request, here are my recordings (2 files because there are 2 common pronunciations for the word 魚).

recording 1.wav

recording 2.wav

[chinesenewbie]

what can I say skylee, you're the best!

I get it now, thanks! I think I just don't have a musical ear.