Dealing with queue jumpers

[imron]

I'm sure they would get the general idea.

[gougou]

Yeah, I'm not doubting that they could understand it, of course. My point is, does it make sense to have 100 people stand on the right (and leave 100 places on the left unoccupied), if there's only 3 people walking? ...10 people walking? ...50 people walking?

[Lu]

I suppose there must be a minimum number of people walking for it to make sense. But in practice, I think it almost always saves time. Generally, people are lazy, which is why escalators exist in the first place. People generally prefer standing on them to walking them. So if there are only a few people on the escalator, only the people in a real rush will take the left side and walk. But if there are a lot of people waiting for the escalator, more people will walk, since they don't want to wait in the line for the right side. This results in more people getting on the other end of the escalator in the same amount of time. Look at Zhongxiao Fuxing MRT at 8.30 in the morning for the perfect illustration of this effect.

I suppose you could either get a mathematician to calculate the number of walkers necessary to make it pay off, or you could could people that come off elevators in Taipei and in Holland and see which system is more efficient.

[skylee]

In HK most people tend to stand on the right on escalaters to give way to people in a hurry Despite the authorities telling people not to walk on escalaters because it is dangerous.

The concept of standing on the right was introduced many years ago by the subway company but after a short while was withdrawn which I suspected was because of safety concerns. But people find it so efficient and would not give up the habit. But of course there are people who disregard what everyone else does and insist on standing whereever they want.

Japanese do the same but they stand on the left. So whenever I go to Japan I almost always stand on the wrong side.

[Shadowdh]

They have the same system in the UK, stand on the right and even have people on loudspeakers saying "stand on the right"... its for those of us who wish to walk up... it is a way of getting some exercise... even promoted as such at times when they are having a "dont be so fat" push...

[imron]

My point is, does it make sense to have 100 people stand on the right (and leave 100 places on the left unoccupied), if there's only 3 people walking? ...10 people walking? ...50 people walking?

Yes, personally I think it still makes sense, even if it's only 1 person walking for every 100 standing. The reason being that the people who want to stand still can stand still, and the people who don't want to stand still can get on with things. Everyone can decide for themselves what they want to do and the actions of one group of people don't affect the actions of the other. This is not true if people clog up the walking lane.

[roddy]

I suspect if the escalator is so busy that capacity is becoming an issue the stand to the right thing will break down pretty quickly anyway. Although, Imron, why don't you just program us a mathematical model?

[liuzhou]

In the mainland it is actually illegal to walk on escalators. It is also compulsory to take escalators in groups then, when disembarking at the top or bottom, to stop dead and block all exit routes while totally ignoring the bodies piling up behind you.

[Shadowdh]

I was just about to make some sort of exclaimation there Liuzhou when I realised you were being all funny like... nice one...

[Lu]

I suspect if the escalator is so busy that capacity is becoming an issue the stand to the right thing will break down pretty quickly anyway.

On Taipei's MRT at least it doesn't break down. And as I described below, leaving space for people to walk on the left actually increases capacity. See, again, Zhongxiao Fuxing MRT at rush hour: that crowd would not be half as fast if everybody was standing and blocking each other's way. See for an example of that the train station in Amsterdam, where it sometimes takes minutes to even get to the top of the escalator.

[wrbt]

I use the block technique when traveling in Asia... I remember how keeping a hand on the rope while waiting to see Mao caused a huge pileup of queue jumpers who would slide along the edges of the line inside the ropes.

Doesn't seem work as much in Vietnam they go under/around/over ropes to get where they want. We used to joke that the Vietnamese queue is the bell curve.

[Quest]

When I was in school in China, the teachers would tell us to always 右上右下。I have not heard of such a rule in the U.S...

It surprised me that HK and the UK weren't 左上左下, like how they drive...

[ganyuehan]

I had problems with people butting in, and asked my wife(a native speaker). I believe she said to say, "請你排隊!" Another time at a clinic, a man wanted to cut in ahead of my daughter and I just wouldn't let him.然後 I overhead another native speaker help me out by saying, " 在這裡我們用排隊的方式。"

[Mugi]

Japanese do the same but they stand on the left.

Except in Kansai (関西), where they stand on the right. When Kansai people visit Tokyo, they inevitably stand on the wrong side.

In the mainland it is actually illegal to walk on escalators. It is also compulsory to take escalators in groups then, when disembarking at the top or bottom, to stop dead and block all exit routes while totally ignoring the bodies piling up behind you.

Japan has this same rule, although it is most vigorously adhered to by 50+ aged women. Similar rule applies when disembarking an elevator or train. And then for 50+ aged men, it is mandatory to rush into an elevator or onto a train before anyone has disembarked.

[simonlaing]

Here's an interesting article about a queue jumper civilian enforcer.

THough I think this happenned at the train station. And for anyone who knows about traveling on an unreserved hard seat car being first in line is a big deal.

it is sad what happenned but, you can sympathize with the guy trying to enforce the rules.

I have had a couple of time mixed feeling while waiting inline for a people's square bus.

There are guard rails to help people line up. The first lot of people get on and take the seats then they ask if other want to get on for the standing room. I have noticed some people say they want to get on for standing room and move up 3/4s of the line. Then they are too far from the front to get on though have cut 3/4s of the line. Is it right that they have moved up in the line or should they be made to go back to their sport (the latter which never happens) .

I have experience once or twice in the early years 2001 when I was here, Army people waving their card ID to cut to the from of a train ticket line. Though the second time it happenned there was a higher ranking officer waiting in line and the private had to go to the back of the line.

What do you think?

have fun,

SimoN:)

[L-F-J]

when i was in china and found myself in any disagreeable situation i didnt use chinese. i just used a serious facial expression and a forceful "no". making it very clear, they know what it means. even as my chinese improves, thats what i use to deal with the rude ones.