cultural differences- a question about the words 弟 and 姊

[natalie]

Hey everybody,

I've been translating a story by Ding Ling and I was wondering about something-

In the story we are told of a guy called "葦弟", who's inlove with the storyteller, who he calls "姊姊".

I seriously doubt they're truly family members so I don't understand how come they call eachother this way... I suppose it's some kind of cultural difference, so I would really appreciate it if someone could shed some light on the matter.

Also, how would you translate it? "young brother" and "elder sister"?

Thanks!

Natalie

p.s.

Here's a short paragraph from the story, where you can read about their relationship

吃過午飯，葦弟便來了，我一听到那特有的急遽的皮鞋聲從走廊的那端傳來時，我的心似乎便從一种窒息中透出一口气來感到舒适。但我卻不會表示，所以當葦弟進來時，我只默默的望著他；他以為我又在煩惱，握緊我一雙手，“姊姊，姊姊，”那樣不斷的叫著。我，我自然笑了！我笑的什么呢，我知道！在那兩顆只望到我眼睛下面的跳動的眸子中，我准懂得那收藏在眼瞼下面，不愿給人知道的是些什么東西！這有多么久了，你，葦弟，你在愛我！ )

[houkoku]

I think they don't have any family relationship..

like nowadays some girls like to call their boyfriend "哥哥“，just to show they are closed

[natalie]

hey, thanks for the answer -

so what do you think, how should it be translated?

"my brother wei" and "older sister"? will it be understood that they're not real brother and sister?

[skylee]

Such usage is common. A mother would teach her child to call any older girls 姊姊, any women 姨姨 or 阿姨, any men 叔叔 or 伯伯, etc. That doesn't mean that they are related.

I don't think it is easy for western readers to understand "my brother wei" and "older sister" in such context. Perhaps you could consider translating "葦弟" to "young Wei" and just use the name of the heroine for "姊姊". But I am not good at translation at ll, so ...

[natalie]

Dear skylee,

you have no idea how helpful you were to me!!!

1000 bows of gratitude!!!

[trien27]

Skylee is correct. There are some cultural terms which is hard to translate into English in Chinese. But this happens to many languages, where you just don't have the correct or appropriate terms in the target language.

1000 bows of gratitude!!!

Do not bow to a living person. At least I don't do it, unless that person is:

1. An emperor

2. A part of the royal family from an Asian country

3. Deceased.

It's a formal gesture to bow in Japanese culture, but that's not correct in all countries. They borrowed the gesture from ancient China, and extended it into the modern age, but Chinese people do not bow to each other in such a way nowadays.

[skylee]

Natalie, you are welcome.

trien27, these days Taiwan president Ma Ying Jiu has bowed a lot to his people, who are neither royalty nor deceased. Singers / performers also bow on the stage to express their gratitude to the audience. It is ok. Just relax.

[renzhe]

I've also seen bows in restaurants, by those people whose job it is to shout 欢迎光临 at the entrance.

But trien27 is right in the sense that it's usually reserved for unusual displays of gratitude, and not as common as in Japan and Korea, where it is also a form of greeting.

EDIT: Of course I'm not teaching you two about these things, I'm just adding my small contribution

[skylee]

And I guess it is understood that nobody expects the OP to really make "1000 bows of gratitude", right? It is just like when people say 不勝感激 and 感激萬分, nobody really expects that degree of gratitude, right?

[natalie]

Hello again,

Trien, I think you took it just a little bit too literally...

the meaning was I couldn't thank her enough, because she really helped me. I chose an extreme expression to express my deep gratitude...

There are different rules in writing than in person...

and as for bowing,

I'm Jewish so the only one we bow to is God.

Take it easy.

[Lu]

I would even leave out 'young' and just let hero and heroine call each other by their given names. In China, this would be a bit impolite, but in translation it looks very natural (at least in English). Or if you're translating to, say, Hebrew, and there are other ways to address a friend and love interest in Hebrew, translate it as that.

In my opinion (and other translators can and will disagree) leaving in things like 'little' and 'old' for xiao and lao makes the characters look a bit weird to a foreign audience, you get a 'oh look at those quaint Chinese' kind of effect.

[pccard]

哈哈。姐弟恋，真够火的。。。

I'm rather to read it in simplified Chinese than tradition Chinese.

葦-we now write in "苇"

=======

we did bow in some cases showing respects

scene 1,

you're late the class,with everybody sitting in classroom and the teather has already

start, you should act slight bow to the teather saying sorry.

scene 2,

In restaurant,hotel,any service trade，waiter and waitress should bow to client saying "welcome"