flashcards:"minimum info." vs "bigger chunks"

[chrix]

the Anki creator doesn't believe in rescheduling, since if you're away not using it, then you're forgetting. Period. You can reschedule cards to a certain date, but not relative to their scheduling data. Maybe you can suspend them, and then unsuspend them, though I'm not sure if that would keep the scheduling info intact

Regarding the scheduling data, I'm looking for a good way to export and import the data, as I don't want to lose it when I reimport stuff from my chengyu database...

[querido]

The rescheduling animal world mentions is the one he doesn't encourage, since those cards *really are due*.

But via the rescheduling he does provide for, that, and other sorts of rearrangements, can be done: anki deck browser "reschedule".

To animal world: If I remember correctly it imported my mnemosyne deck with learning data automatically. But be warned- presently I think it isn't so easy to migrate the other way.

Anki is harder to learn but also more flexible. Mnemosyne V2 is likely to be harder to learn to use too, having more features, but it's a good bet he'll keep it as clean as humanly possible.

Edited February 10, 2010 at 10:45 AM by querido

[gato]

the Anki creator doesn't believe in rescheduling, since if you're away not using it, then you're forgetting. Period. You can reschedule cards to a certain date, but not relative to their scheduling data.

It seems that Anki, like all the SRS software, assumes that one studies everyday. The algorithm breaks if you study irregularly or take a break. In the ideal, one would study every day, but realistically, one will take breaks and the program needs to provide a way to deal with that practical reality.

There was a discussion on pleco forum about the related problem of how to do SRS if you have a large list of words (say, more than 2000).

http://www.plecoforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1809

Flashcards - spaced repitition question

Space-repetition is not possible with 2500 cards in a single category unless you

(1) study a large number of cards every day (like 800); or

(2) create a new category, move a smaller number of cards into a new category for study and add new cards to it as you progress.

[renzhe]

The SRS programmes don't assume you study everyday, just that you study regularly.

You can study every three days if you want, it's just that you'll have to do 3 days' revision at once in that case.

SRS simply tries to simulate the forgetting that occurs naturally within your brain. If you stop studying Chinese for a month, your brain will do one month of forgetting. There's nothing any program can do about it.

As for large number of cards, I have more than 10,000 and it's really not that bad. It all depends on how many new words you're learning and how much revision of older stuff. If you add new vocab slowly, it's no problem.

But some people try to learn 400 words every day, and then they wonder when they have to review 1000 next week.

[querido]

To animal world and fans of mnemosyne:

Now, while Version 2 is being crafted, is the best time to join the mnemosyne forum on google groups to make suggestions. When I said "he said he's quite busy (with a new baby coming)" I didn't mean to suggest that he wasn't working on V2. And he answers forum questions every day too.

On 07/02/2010 12:20, Peter Bienstman wrote:

> Keep the suggestions coming!

About taking breaks and large decks:

Both mnemosyne and anki know how to handle these things. For example, if you're a week late answering a card, they know that and (briefly speaking) give you credit for remembering it that extra week. This is why it doesn't matter as much as you think when your queue backs up. Just work it down as you can; nothing weird will happen.

About "bigger chunks":

Mnemosyne V2 will (optionally) display a control bar on audio, permitting pause, stop, etc., and scrollbars. Both of these features invite the flashcarding of bigger chunks. Again, I'm thinking of this not in order to actually memorize these, but simply as a review-reading scheduling aid. In conjunction with a configurable maximum interval limit (via python hacking or a plugin), this would be a way to keep your reading list rotating.

Has anyone else thought of using a flashcard program as a reading list manager? I'm doing it with poems- reading aloud, listening to the audio; it works well. And, (returning to the context of several of my posts ago) there's no chance I'll accidentally read these between schedulings; thus, the grade and interval will remain meaningful.

Edit: Let me mention again that you need not necessarily bother flashcarding these larger items; the front of the card could show simply the title of the piece, to be read or listened to anywhere. The back could have... nothing. What you gain is the program's scheduling logic and record keeping.

Edited February 10, 2010 at 03:58 PM by querido

[animal world]

gato wrote:

It seems that Anki, like all the SRS software, assumes that one studies everyday. The algorithm breaks if you study irregularly or take a break. In the ideal, one would study every day, but realistically, one will take breaks and the program needs to provide a way to deal with that practical reality.

I discovered Mnemosyne in late August and immediately regretted not having known about this tool a long time ago. Since then, i have been a very good kid and haven't skipped a single day using SRS. However, my next 2-4 months promise to be awfully busy and even Mnemosyne may have to be put on the back burner at times. And i'm not talking about just having to skip SRS for a day or two. Yes, it would be nice if SRS progams could make allowance for the things that reflect not a lack of discipline but simply ... life! My mind can readily conceive for an alternative algorithm to kick in during those situations and gently ease the user back into the old routine (and let's not worry about those users who might use such an option as a way to "cheat"). However, i'm not a programmer and also realize that it's uncharitable to have excessive expectations of a service that is provided for free.

to querido,

In general, i'm not much of a forum person but will do my best to join the M forum and contribute my two worthless cents of praise, encouragement and suggestions. Just give me a few days.

It's amusing to see the different, but all valid, approaches to studying Chinese. To me, poetry is the icing on the Chinese cake and is the very last thing for which i would want a scheduled routine. I turn to this poem or that one depending on what the soul hungers for.

[chrix]

Yeah but if life intervenes and you forget, why would you want to cheat, regardless of the reason, you will have forgotten stuff... You just have to catch up then... It's been discussed to this effect on the anki forum, you just calculate how many you would need to review every day so that you can catch up in X days. You don't have to catch up all of it in one day.

[renzhe]

Yes, if you have 1000 cards waiting for you, simply do 100 per day for 10 days. Both Anki and Mnemosyne will schedule the more critical cards first.

It does seem overwhelming at once, but at least you know exactly how far behind you are.

[Guest realmayo]

I began clearing a backlog on Anki of 4,000 a few days ago. This is very far from ideal! But I had stopped Anki for over a month.

Renzhe: actually it's more than 1000 = 100 * 10 days, because if you fail, say, 15%, then you'll be adding 15 failed cards to the pile each day. I don't raise this to be pedantic, but because the question then becomes what to do with these failed cards? Or rather, what are "the most critical cards"?

Me, I do what normally happens with failed cards: Anki resets them to on one-day interval, and so I restart studying them. But for this to work, while clearing the backlog I need Anki to show me the cards with the shortest-interval cards coming first.

I guess the alternative is to review from the largest interval first, and only start dealing with all these failed cards once the main backlog is cleared.

But I've found the worst thing possible when clearing a backlog over a few days is to review in random order, or in order "due".

[chrix]

The good thing is that anki does give you several options here. So whatever works for you.

I wouldn't worry too much about the failed cards. Just keep failing them whenever you come across them...

[Guest realmayo]

yeah I don't mean to sound dogmatic, I mean obviously whatever suits best ... it's just that the most frustrating & depressing thing I have found clearing backlogs is when the cards I fail keep coming back, unremembered, throughout the process. As failed cards, I should normally be seeing them after +1 day, then +2-3 days, etc ... but when slowly working through a backlog, this won't happen unless I'm seeing the shortest-interval cards first.