琢磨 - pronunciation

[Scoobyqueen]

I think 琢磨meaning "think about"/"contemplating" may have two pronunications, is that right? It occurs with both zuo2 mo and zhuo2 mo2 in different word lists but perhaps there is a different pronunciation according to meaning ie 琢磨 for above meaning and 琢磨 for "polish"

[muyongshi]

You are right that there are two pronunciations and two meanings. zuo2 mo is for thinking something over and zhuo2 mo2 is for polishing/carving- like a stone, jade or the like, and even used for "polishing"/refining a literary work. Like we would say polishing a rough draft.

[Scoobyqueen]

Thanks for confirming that. I thought the dictionary was not clear on this. I have never heard the word used and dont know if I am likely to so I thought I better ask

[muyongshi]

Can't say I've ever heard it used either.....

[renzhe]

I've never heard it used either, but I run into it while reading all the time.

Until today, I was convinced that it was read "zhuomo". I've learned something again!

[jiangping]

I remember hearing it once on Chinesepod (by Jenny, a native speaker), and I think she pronounced it as zhuo2mo - with the "mo" as neutral, if I remember correctly. I thought this was pretty odd because it was down in the vocab list with the "zuo2mo" pronunciation and also pronounced as "zuo2mo" in the same podcast by a different native speaker! This was for the meaning of "to think it over". Maybe it's a regional/dialectal thing?

Edited September 8, 2009 at 03:58 AM by jiangping

[leeyah]

Also note that 琢磨 z(h)uó mó (反复思索) is often confused with 捉摸 zhuō mō in a negative aspect, as in 捉摸不定. Compare:

他真让人捉摸不透 >> 他是难以捉摸的人 vs >>他让人不易琢磨

All three sentences mean: He is a difficult person to understand.

[xiaocai]

他让人不易琢磨

Did you mean to say 他让人不易捉摸 here?

[leeyah]

I was referring to jiangping's post about the zuo/zhuo confusion for 琢磨 s/he noticed in native speakers pronunciation. And yes, speakers of some dialects may pronounce zhuo as zuo.

Anyway, in written form it can be either of the two, with just a slight (?) nuance in meaning:

他让人琢磨不透 / 他不易琢磨zuó mo>>it's difficult to figure him out, understand him, i.e. 难以理解

(or the poetic>>.幸福从来不易得、不易握、不易长久、不易琢磨)

vs.

他让人捉摸不透 i.e. 难以捉摸zhuō mō>> he is elusive, vague, unclear, it's hard to get through to him/ see through him i.e. 不可捉摸, 不清楚的, 不明确的

[xiaocai]

I see. Just 他让人不易琢磨 sounds a bit strange to me. I think it is more common to say 捉摸不定 or 琢磨不透. 不易琢磨 gives me the impression that something is very hard and will be difficult to polish.

[leeyah]

不易琢磨 gives me the impression that something is very hard and will be difficult to polish

Yes, that's a nice explanation, so I guess 不易琢磨 can be understood as unfathomable, since 琢磨 is close in meaning to 揣摩 (try to fathom, figure out) >>仔细揣摩才能透彻了解

As to whether it is pronounced zuo or zhuo, well, looks like it's no big difference really