learning chinese

[Scoobyqueen]

I seem to remember once reading the Cambridge Uni's Chinese degree admission

[Meng Lelan]

One of the reasons might be that Japanese pop, and probably traditional now, culture is not only just five times more influential than its Chinese counterpart. How many kids will grow up without watching one Japanese anime series or playing one Japanese game? They all make up a significant positive (well, mostly) input into the image of Japan.

xiaocai is absolutely correct in this respect. Don't forget too the Japanese made cartoon series that were and still are popular in the US, anyone here remember the Pokemon boom? That really was something.

scoobyqueen - really? You mean, if you wanted to study Chinese just because Chinese is supposed to be "exotic", then you should not apply to Cambridge? in other words, loonies not allowed?

[Scoobyqueen]

scoobyqueen - really? You mean, if you wanted to study Chinese just because Chinese is supposed to be "exotic", then you should not apply to Cambridge? in other words, loonies not allowed?

This is what they write:

We are looking for students who relish not exoticism but a serious commitment to the enterprise of learning about a vital and increasingly important part of the world. Source

Sounds awfully British by the way.

Edited September 19, 2009 at 03:17 PM by Scoobyqueen

[Meng Lelan]

The British are very proficient at expressing themselves in written English. I'll just leave it at that.

Thanks for sharing that comment, scoobyqueen.

[PhilipOfMacedon]

I don't think any particular personality type tends to learn Chinese.

Maybe it tends to be a conservative thing, can anyone attest to that?

[anonymoose]

I can understand Cambridge University wanting to weed out potential students who are not seriously commited, but I hate it when institution have such narrow and prescriptive conditions for people wanting to study.

Speaking for myself, I started to learn Chinese because I was interested in it from a linguistic point of view, and I suppose you could say because it's "exotic" in the sense that the language has a fairly unique writing system. Although I have become interested in China and Chinese culture as an incidental part of learning Chinese, that certainly wasn't the driving force behind my initial interest in the language, and as such, I wouldn't fit the requirements as expressed in the sentence quoted by Scoobyqueen, but I bet my Chinese has progressed further than the majority of people graduating with a degree in Chinese from Cambridge.

[Neil_H]

I don't know if others have experienced this but it follows the loonies title.

Who speaks Mandarin in their dreams? I sometimes have found myself dreaming with it being a Mandarin conversation. Even more funny was a word I can't pronounce properly because of the tone I asked my wife in my dream to say it properly.

[jbradfor]

Even more funny was a word I can't pronounce properly because of the tone I asked my wife in my dream to say it properly.

And does she?

A suggestion: when you tell her that you dream of her, don't tell her that it's for Chinese help.

[Neil_H]

No - I think my dream crashed at that point and I woke up. (system error encountered)

If in my dream she had of said the right word it would mean I really have it in my brain already which would freaky.

[gerri]

At the University of Vienna (Austria), Chinese and Japanese studies have had tremendous (for their status) influx of new students... Part is, however, because people sooo love manga and want to be able to read them in the original Japanese.

There, I can understand Cambridge... it's come to the point, if anecdotal, of a female student who was serious enough to study well, then make it to Japan, and discover that the society was so misogynistic, she couldn't stand it and never wanted to go back...

Still, the drop-out rate is rather immense, but it depends, I guess: You can do Chinese studies, or a degree combining Chinese and management, or translation. And a teacher training course is planned...

On the original intent of the thread: Well, practicing to say something Chinese right and writing it in the air while seated on a bus in the middle of Europe can get rather disconcerted looks...

[animal world]

Actually, from the first week, when i only knew a few words of Chinese, people have been unduly impressed. Then they look at me intensely to find out what else might be weird about me. I therefore never mention anymore that i study that language.

In bookstores in the US (even excellent ones) there is a vast selection of the usual tourist stuff and books for beginners in Chinese. Books on an advanced level are hard to find. I've picked up a few books and and excellent dictionary in second-hand bookstores. Typically, a handful of words had been outlined with a yellow marker. At that point, the owner gave up on Chinese apparently. No, i don't see Chinese overtaking English as the world language any time soon, if ever.

[jiangping]

I think Cambridge have a point. A lot of people start on Chinese degrees with unrealistic ideas about what studying Chinese actually involves, and then get a big shock when they find out. A typical example would be the smart kids who cruised through college (high school) with great grades and who can speak one or two European languages (because they're "language naturals"), but when they actually start they realise that however smart they are, the only way to survive is to work extremely hard, and for relatively slow gains. Another thing is that many Chinese degrees aren't just modern Chinese language, you've also gotta learn a lot of classical Chinese, literature, history, etc., which many people simply have no interest in, yet have to spend considerable amount of time on.

The simple fact is that degrees like Chinese/Japanese/Arabic are much more difficult than people expect, but the practical gains in modern language are actually slower than if one was to sign up to a language course in, say, China (I would imagine).

[kurii]

I'm in Australia, Lelan.

Speaking of Cambridge, it occurred to me that I once heard their Chinese Department's Chair speaking Chinese on TV; he was interviewed by CCTV who hosted a Chinese language competition - not 汉语桥. My Uni's 中文系主任, I must say, can put that man in shame with his astonishing Chinese ability, comparable to Dashan's. The outcome of that competition was questionable - the top 3 contestants were from the most prestigious universities - Cambridge, Yale and thingamajig, with Cambridge declared winner, whilst the Korean girls who spoke near-native Chinese were awarded nothing. One of whom obtained an individual award though. The Cambridge students' proficiency was poor, not to mention their weak competence to engage in academic debate. What a disgrace that the result was manipulated in favour of 名校. That Cambridge Chair was even in the judge panel. All he could say about the Korean girls' performance was 恩，很好，她们的汉语很好 in which his lack of vocabulary was evidenced.

[Scoobyqueen]

Is anyone ever asked to give a demonstration of Chinese from people who dont speak it? strangely enough I have been asked that in other languages but rarely ever for Chinese.

[Meng Lelan]

Yes, many times.

I also have been requested many times from my hearing impaired middle school students, in fact last month, one of them asked me to say and write a number of Chinese words to him. Then he asked me to teach him to speak and write Chinese if and when he finishes his school homework each day. He even used $10 of his allowance to go to the bookstore to buy a small book about the Chinese language.

So I've agreed to this arrangement, it's working out very nicely.

[jiangping]

I'm in Australia, Lelan.

Speaking of Cambridge, it occurred to me that I once heard their Chinese Department's Chair speaking Chinese on TV; he was interviewed by CCTV who hosted a Chinese language competition - not 汉语桥. My Uni's 中文系主任, I must say, can put that man in shame with his astonishing Chinese ability, comparable to Dashan's. The outcome of that competition was questionable - the top 3 contestants were from the most prestigious universities - Cambridge, Yale and thingamajig, with Cambridge declared winner, whilst the Korean girls who spoke near-native Chinese were awarded nothing. One of whom obtained an individual award though. The Cambridge students' proficiency was poor, not to mention their weak competence to engage in academic debate. What a disgrace that the result was manipulated in favour of 名校. That Cambridge Chair was even in the judge panel. All he could say about the Korean girls' performance was 恩，很好，她们的汉语很好 in which his lack of vocabulary was evidenced.

What was the name of the guy you're talking about? Professor Sterckx? Anyway, even if his Chinese did suck (which I doubt), that doesn't have any relation to the quality of modern language teaching at Cambridge. I'm pretty sure that there (as with everywhere else) they have native speakers teaching modern Chinese, and then things like classical Chinese, history and literature are taught by sinologists (Chinese or not) specialising in those areas. In fact, it would be perfectly possible to be a good sinologist without speaking any Chinese at all (and there are many examples of this, especially in Japan).

In conclusion: 1) a degree in BA Chinese does not equal a Chinese language course. For example, I am entering my final year on a Chinese university course and I will not be taking any modern Chinese language units.

2) With the exception of grammar or translation into English, heads of Chinese departments do not usually teach modern Chinese, and, as such, their modern Chinese level has no reflection on the language courses that run at their universities.

Edited September 20, 2009 at 08:30 PM by jiangping

[kurii]

Can't remember his name. Was he a judge in 珍视明2007国际大学群英辩论会?

My previous posting wasn't intended to be critical of Cambridge, just some randomness. Too bad you got the wrong idea.

But then, that professor I mentioned obviously spoke horrible Chinese. I however agree with you that to be a good sinologist, one isn't necessarily required to possess a good command of Chinese.

Correction: Cambridge couldn't make into the final list. It was Oxford I was supposedly referring to all the way through.

A video of their performance can be watched through the link.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ2NzI3ODQ=.html

Edited September 20, 2009 at 06:37 PM by kurii

[Scoobyqueen]

It was Oxford I was supposedly referring to all the way through

Oxford tends to be higher rated than Cambridge with regards to Arts degrees. Cambridge is strong on maths and engineering etc.

Meng Lelan - that is a really heartwarming story. It sounds like you are a great inspiration to those kids.

[OneEye]

What was the name of the guy you're talking about? Professor Sterkx? Anyway, even if his Chinese did suck (which I doubt), that doesn't have any relation to the quality of modern language teaching at Cambridge. I'm pretty sure that there (as with everywhere else) they have native speakers teaching modern Chinese, and then things like classical Chinese, history and literature are taught by sinologists (Chinese or not) specialising in those areas. In fact, it would be perfectly possible to be a good sinologist without speaking any Chinese at all (and there are many examples of this, especially in Japan).

In conclusion: 1) a degree in BA Chinese does not equal a Chinese language course. For example, I am entering my final year on a Chinese university course and I will not be taking any modern Chinese language units.

2) With the exception of grammar or translation into English, heads of Chinese departments do not usually teach modern Chinese, and, as such, their modern Chinese level has no reflection on the language courses that run at their universities.

Agreed. People don't seem to understand that you don't generally choose to major in Chinese in order to learn to speak Chinese. A major in Chinese is academic, not practical. I understand Cambridge's sentiment completely. They want students who will take the courses seriously and (hopefully) go on to graduate/postgraduate research in the field, not people who just want to learn the language and go on with their lives.

The University of Texas's Asian Studies Department offers two majors: Asian Studies and Asian Cultures and Languages. From their website:

The undergraduate major in Asian Studies provides a solid and broad background in classical and contemporary Asia for students with a variety of career goals.....intended to give students a broad background knowledge of Asia and further their competence in an Asian language so that they may enter a career in business, law, non-profit or government work.

Now, majoring in Asian Studies is NOT the same as majoring in a specific language. You can take any Asian language, and only have to take up to the 2nd year. If you major in Chinese, then your official major is Asian Cultures and Languages - Chinese. Here's their description of that major:

Intended for students desiring to focus on one country or language, the undergraduate major in ACL is designed to provide competence in one Asian language, a deep and broad knowledge of the cultural and geographic area represented by that language,and familiarity with other regions of Asia....designed for students who intend to pursue a career in scholarly research and university teaching on Asia.

The ACL is a more scholarly program, including modern Chinese language and literature, classical Chinese language and literature, research, etc. It's intended for students who want to pursue graduate work, vs. the Asian Studies major which is intended for students who want to have a career "out there" related to Asia.

[renzhe]

Oxford tends to be higher rated than Cambridge with regards to Arts degrees. Cambridge is strong on maths and engineering etc.

I don't think that this is the case anymore. They are fiercely competitive across the board nowadays.