Tui - Push (推)

[shida]

Dear Forum Members

I am told that the ideogram for 'push' (推) is written with a hand and a bird.

Does anyone know why this is, and why together they make the meaning for 'push'?

Thank you.

[imron]

扌 is for the meaning, 隹 (pronounced zhuī) is the phonetic component. The etymologies of many Chinese characters are like this. They are called phono-semantic compounds and comprise maybe 80% of all Chinese characters. They have a component that indicates meaning and a component that indicates pronunciation. While technically the character is broken down by hand + bird, it's not hand + bird = push, it's push = the word that has something to do with a hand and sounds a little bit like zhuī.

Edited September 14, 2009 at 08:07 AM by imron
spelling

[shida]

Thank you for your reply. To clarify; the ideogram refers to 'push', but 'zhui' (usually translated as 'short-tailed bird') has nothing practical to add to the practice or act of 'pushing', other than a similar sounding particle to 'zhui'?

Thank you

[imron]

Correct. 隹 is the phonetic component and is not related to the act of pushing. There are some people however who find it useful to create mnemonics and stories tying each of the separate components of a character together, in order to help remember how a character is drawn. Such stories however are often not related to the actual etymology of the character.

[shida]

Thank you for your exact knowledge in this matter. Usually, I have been involved in Chinese philosophical ideograms, such as 'Dao', 'Ch'an', 'qi', or 'shen', etc. And yes, when I have been taught the structure of these kind of ideograms, a story has been told to me about the 'inner' meaning of the particles.

I see the constructive scheme that you have presented, and understand the underlying logic of the ideogram.

On a slightly different, but related note, are you aware of any stories relating to this ideogram?

Thank you

[imron]

Sorry I don't.

Regarding etymologies, sites like http://www.zhongwen.com, contain a large amount of etymology information regarding Chinese characters.

[shida]

Thank you imron, you have been very helpful and provided very good information and guidance in this matter. I shall now visit the weblink you sugeest.

Thank you

PS: In passing, a friend suggested that a bird 'pushes' off the ground to fly, as one possible story!

[renzhe]

On a slightly different, but related note, are you aware of any stories relating to this ideogram?

I always found this one easy to remember. A bird is sleeping on the branch, and you sneak up to it and push it off.

Thank you for your reply. To clarify; the ideogram refers to 'push', but 'zhui' (usually translated as 'short-tailed bird') has nothing practical to add to the practice or act of 'pushing', other than a similar sounding particle to 'zhui'?

In this case, no.

In some cases, a phonetic component was chosen which also fits in in terms of meaning. It's still a phonetic-semantic compound in that case, but the lines are a bit blurry, leading some people to think that every characted has an "encoded" meaning.

[imron]

For reference,《 说文解字》, a 2,000 year old text explaining and analysing characters, lists the explanation of 推 as 排也。从手隹聲, or basically it means push and hand (手) plays the semantic role and 隹 is the phonetic.

[imron]

A bird is sleeping on the branch, and you sneak up to it and push it off.

Don't forget it should be a short-tailed bird

[shida]

Thank you both for your comments, insight and humour!

The sleeping bird being dislodged from a tree is interesting, when one considers the 'tui shou' or 'push hands' concept, found in the martial art of taijiquan;

推手

Thank you

Edited September 14, 2009 at 12:40 PM by shida

[fengyixiao]

http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE6Zdic8EZdicA8.htm

See the above link，the right part of 推 in the acient times is more like a 雀 then 隹.

In fact,隹 is the name for all kinds of birds which have short tails.

● 隹

zhuī ㄓㄨㄟˉ

◎ 短尾鸟的总称。

◎ 柘实。

So,推 indeed is hand+bird.

[renzhe]

Don't forget it should be a short-tailed bird

I imagine a penguin

(you're probably asking yourself why a penguin would be sitting on a branch, but that's the whole point. Once you have this mental image, you'll never forget 推)

[fengyixiao]

It's a penguin:mrgreen:

[shida]

Thank you fengyixiao!

Very interesting and much appreciated information. The link you provide defines tui as push or 'expel'. Any ideas or stories to why hand+bird=push?

Thanks

[fengyixiao]

Maybe it's a penguin:mrgreen:

There is a story for one idiom "网开一面"。

If you can read chinese,see this link:http://baike.baidu.com/view/237555.htm

If you can't read chinese(my english is not good)please Renzhe translate this story.

From this story,I think,推 maybe mean pushing a net to save the bird.

As the real story why 推 is a hand+bird，it's too long(more than 3000 years),no one knows.

I think, the define of 推 as "expel" maybe the basic and original meaning by the WordCreator.

It is quite easy to understand:推-Waving your hand to “expel” or drive the birds(Maybe the birds are eating his corn!)

Even nowadays,we chinese expel or drive birds which are eating our corn,we will wave a hand,and say aloud "去qu4".

去's pronouncation,is similar to 雀，and is close to 隹.

So，maybe our ancestors create the word 推 for this reason.

Of course,just my guess. It's too far to this day.

So，acoording the original/basic meaning of "推"，"Tui - expel(驱赶)" is easy to understand.

Original and basically,"推" is "expel",it's an action to wave one's hand to expel or drive birds which are eating a farmer's corn.

Edited September 14, 2009 at 11:22 PM by imron
merged consecutive posts

[shida]

Thank you for your kind help in this matter.

Kind Regards

Shi

[fengyixiao]

If you want understand a 汉字，you should find out its original and basic shape and meaning.

There is a good story for the word "而".

Think such words "而且"，“一而十，十而百，百而千”，here the word "而" has a meaning "to go forward one by one".

Why the word "而" has this meaning?

There are two descripitons for the word "而",

The 1st meaning of 而 is "a bread" at the bottom of one's face. See this link:http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE8Zdic80Zdic8C.htm

The second meaning of "而" is “tail of a fish”. Also see the above link,inside there is a desription "《周禮》曰：“作其鱗之而。”". So,the second descripion is the original and basic description for the word "而".

You can image: A fish swing its tail and "to go forward one by one".

Indeed,usually,there is a story for a chinese word.

But the year when the word is created is too far away to today,many stories how the word is created has been lost.

[shida]

This is wonderful knowledge - thank you for sharing it.

Best Wishes

[Hofmann]

http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE6Zdic8EZdicA8.htm

See the above link，the right part of 推 in the acient times is more like a 雀 then 隹.

Umm...no it isn't. Look at 隹. Look at 雀. Look at 推.