So apparently I'm going to lose my Chinese...

[SunDaYu]

EDIT: The issue was resolved and everything is fine now.

Edited September 23, 2009 at 12:25 PM by SunDaYu

[muyongshi]

I think you already know the answer to your own question and are more looking for people to "side" with you against your teacher and have an outlet for complaining/letting some steam off.

In this situation the answer is simple- do what you WANT to do. Not what you think you should/need to do, not what your teacher tells you, not what we tell you. If you wanna stay for another few weeks just to travel do it, if you LIKE studying and want to keep doing that, take the pressure to succeed off and just have fun, if you want to go home, go home. Simple as that.

[SunDaYu]

edited

Edited September 23, 2009 at 12:26 PM by SunDaYu

[Neil_H]

It is not as if China is the only place to learn Chinese. You can return home then use one of these Chinese skype tutors people are raving about to concentrate on your tones.

[adrianlondon]

I self-studied at home for a year (just an hour or two a week - it was only for fun) then went to Beijing for a semester from Sep 2006 to Jan 2007.

Although my writing skills have almost gone, as I never practise, my language ability has stayed pretty constant. How have I done that? Simple - I kept all the textbooks from my class, and also bought the beginner books (from the level below me which I "skipped" by having self studied). Every now and again, I read through the texts.

Although I'm not improving, I don't feel my level is getting any worse. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd keep writing too.

[renzhe]

It's probably right that it's much easier to keep your language level once you reach a "critical mass". I do believe that there is a moment when a language "clicks" and that once it's internalised like that, it's much harder to forget.

That said, you can probably keep your Chinese level up to date by watching TV shows, reading books and conversing with Chinese people regularly. You might regress slightly, but you probably won't forget everything. It will take more concentrated effort than being in China, though.

If some of us can learn Chinese from zero while living out of China, it is certainly not impossible to maintain your language level outside of China either.

[wushijiao]

To top it off, one of my teachers told me that since we started class two months ago my Chinese hasn't gotten any better, despite how much I've been studying. She specifically mentioned my tones, so maybe it was just those; she didn't mention anything else.

I've said it before (and I may be wrong), but the ability to speak in tones correctly mainly comes from the amount of exposure you have accumulated, plus some specific drills or practice you might do on the side to supplement your skill set. Having a teacher or a coach for that could be very useful, but I think it's probably best done when in combination with a lot of time sent studying.

Also, what kind of teacher specifically points out to a student that they haven't improved (especially if they have been putting in decent work)? That sounds fairly unprofessional.

On the other hand, I do believe in the "critical mass" theory, if you want to call it that.

However, I'd bring up two points:

1) As renzhe said (and has proven personally), you don't necessarily have to live in China to improve, (although it really helps, all things being even).

2) Who knows if it will be one semester? It could, potentially, be much longer than that.

So, if I were you, if you like studying Chinese, I'd set a goal to be determined to keep studying no matter what, and no matter where you are. With that out of the way, you can plan what is best for your life.

[renzhe]

Anyway, if you've identified an aspect of your Chinese which needs improvement (for example, tones), you might want to address this aspect specifically.

imron has written many good posts about improving tones. I also agree with wushijiao that developing an ear for the language is crucial, and that lots of exposure (active listening) is an important part of getting there.

I'd recommend watching a TV series, something like 奋斗, where you have the transcripts, the vocabulary lists, grammar explanations, etc. If you watch all of that and understand most of it, you will have more than 20 hours of listening exercise. If you rewatch each episode, you'll get double the time and more practice.

Try to repeat the things the characters say, especially easier phrases and common sentences. Either repeat them outloud, or imagine saying it, with the exact same intonation. After a while, common phrases become so burned into your memory that you can "hear" them before saying them, and then you don't have to think about tones.

After finishing that, I could hear the main characters' voices saying things in my head (aaaargh! voices in my head!!!), and then it's much easier to pronounce things with the proper intonation and stress.

Once the very common words become natural like that, you only have to actively think about the remaining words in the sentence, which is much easier to get right, and your tones become much better. Exposure and active listening is the key. And you can do this just as well outside of China as you can over there.

[Maqqie]

how long did it take you guys (for those who have achieved it) the "critical mass" stage?

[renzhe]

I think it depends on too many factors to say.

I don't think I've reached it yet.

[muyongshi]

I think I've reached critical mass, but not in regards to Chinese... other areas... that I won't mention here.

Honestly- there probably is a "critical mass" but hell if anyone actually knows what it is. And yes it will be different for everyone because it can't just be about how much of any given thing you've studied but will include things like exposure, recall, actual ability to use as {passive vs active}, and the list goes on. I don't know if I've reached it- I'm just gonna keep assuming I haven't cause maybe I'll work harder.

[Neil_H]

I would describe critical mass in a language as being when you don't have to think about the words or order you are saying them in. They flow naturally.

This could also be thought of as being fluent so perhaps I am talking rubbish.

[Artem]

I think critical mass for languages is when learning words is no longer forced. In other words, you can just learn a word from someone telling you what it means, instead of having to memorize it.

By that point, your other skills should be at equal level.

[gato]

For those on the forum for whom English is a second language, I'd guess that most would feel that they've reached a "critical mass" in English and even if they were to live in China for 20 years or so, they probably wouldn't lose their English. But then again, it's hard to get away from English nowadays. It's hard not to "practice" it.

I studied French for four years in high school. Since it was high school, the requirements were hardly rigorous and I never got to the fluent stage, but I still more or less have retained a "critical mass" of it, even the grammar (despite the fact that high school is many, many moons ago now).

On the other hand, about five years ago, I studied Spanish for about year and spent a month in Latin America. At the time, my Spanish was better than my French in terms of conversation ability. However, I quickly lost it after I stopped studying it. I don't know if it was old age or the fact I never had a solid handle on Spanish verb conjugations. Maybe it was the lack of critical mass, the difference between 4 years and 1 year.

Edited September 19, 2009 at 01:32 AM by gato

[muyongshi]

I think critical mass for languages is when learning words is no longer forced. In other words, you can just learn a word from someone telling you what it means, instead of having to memorize it.

I would describe critical mass in a language as being when you don't have to think about the words or order you are saying them in. They flow naturally.

I would tend to agree with these but what about the fact that somedays I have to think about the absolute most basic things. Things that typically I would say without thinking, no processing, the words are just there. Honestly I achieved, according to those definitions, that type of level by my second year and it only got better from there. But more and more I am finding that I have days where nothing comes. And I feel like an idiot cause I'm stumbling over everything I say. How do you compensate for that? My point is- I don't think that critical mass can be defined in that sense.

[gato]

I would tend to agree with these but what about the fact that somedays I have to think about the absolute most basic things. ... But more and more I am finding that I have days where nothing comes. And I feel like an idiot cause I'm stumbling over everything I say. How do you compensate for that?

I find I'm like that when I don't get enough sleep. The answer is better sleep.

[renzhe]

For me, critical mass is when you don't forget a language anymore

I had a similar experience with Spanish as Gato has had with French. Even if I don't use it or hear it for years, I can still follow a movie, and express most things (in a rather basic way, usually). So I probably reached this critical mass in Spanish.

If I were to stop Chinese tomorrow, I would definitely retain some stuff, but I'd likely forget loads of stuff, and wouldn't be able to lead conversations or read newspapers. So I'm pushing forward, at least until I reach that point.

[anonymoose]

Interesting theories regarding critical mass, but I don't think it's a simple "either you've reached it or you haven't" thing. Unless Chinese is your native language (and possibly even if it is your native language), a prolonged period of lack of exposure will undoubtedly lead to a decline in ability, the significant point being the extent of this decline. I think the more solid your foundation in the language, the less severe the decline will be, relatively speaking. I think I've reached a level where I will never forget my Chinese completely, and I'll probably retain at least a conversational level even if I don't practice for several years. But I do notice that even after a couple of months without exposure to Chinese, my speaking ability drops noticeably. Does this count as having reached "critical mass"?

For comparison, I learned French for seven years at school, plus a little at university, and at the time, my speaking ability was reasonably fluent. But ten years later, it had dropped to the level where even getting a single sentence out was a bit of a struggle (but I think that is partly due to influence from Chinese - when I try to speak French, a string of Chinese words inevitably comes out). I also learned German for three years, and never really got a firm grasp on the grammar, but strangely I can still speak German (albeit with faulty grammar) relatively well, at least compared to French.

[renzhe]

Does this count as having reached "critical mass"?

IMHO, yes.

Your level will always decline if you don't use a language -- this holds for your mother tongue as well! -- but you will remain conversational because you've internalised all the basic elements of a language. You'll probably find it much easier to reach your previous level than you did the first time around.

But this is just my experience, not a language theory.

[paike]

anonymoose Interesting theories regarding critical mass, but I don't think it's a simple "either you've reached it or you haven't" thing. Unless Chinese is your native language (and possibly even if it is your native language), a prolonged period of lack of exposure will undoubtedly lead to a decline in ability, the significant point being the extent of this decline. I think the more solid your foundation in the language, the less severe the decline will be, relatively speaking. I think I've reached a level where I will never forget my Chinese completely, and I'll probably retain at least a conversational level even if I don't practice for several years. But I do notice that even after a couple of months without exposure to Chinese, my speaking ability drops noticeably. Does this count as having reached "critical mass"?

Critical mass sounds like something that a bunch of new-age-y profs in a den, over a few cocktails, came up with. I've been studying for a while, maybe 3+ years on a off. Lived in China for four. Every summer I take my free plane tickets from my university and go home for 6 weeks approx and that first half an hour long cab ride back to my apartment from the airport (after traveling for something like 27 hours straight) is not fun. SOOO many things that should come out, don't.

I would say I speak well. Not amazing, but well enough to talk about most things, even on the news. 6 week break of frisbee, BBQ and hanging out in Lake Michigan, after that, it takes at least two weeks of heavy study to get back to where i was.

The writing.... sheesh, lets not go there!

Pai Ke