Taiwanese Accent Differences

[CookieFactory]

I was wondering what everyone thought about Taiwan accents. I just came back from a trip in China, and I was told that I have a Taiwan accent by my family there. I find this odd because I am not from Taiwan, (my mom is from Sichuan, dad from Inner Mongolia), nor have I ever been there.

Anyway, my dad's side of the family all thought the Taiwan accent sounded very pleasant, while my mom disagrees and says it sounds ugly. I've also have had a friend tell me that I should watch CCTV online to try to adopt a more "mainland," accent!

What does everyone on this board think? Taiwan accent = good or bad?

Sub-debate: What is the most aesthetically pleasing provincial accent of Mandarin? What is the most displeasing?

[woodcutter]

You don't care what a native Britisher thinks about this, I know, but is it only us foreigners, or are all southern accents which seem to leave out the "h" in "sh" a bit frustrating to other Chinese as well?

[gfross]

You don't care what a native Britisher thinks about this, I know, but is it only us foreigners, or are all southern accents which seem to leave out the "h" in "sh" a bit frustrating to other Chinese as well?

Ah, THAT's the accent that pronounces "shao3" as "sao3" and "shu1" as "su1"! One informant on my De Francis _Beginning Chinese Reader_ audio tapes has that accent, which really took me aback when I first heard him.

(Hmm, there's no "quote reply" option in this forum that I can see. I've noticed, however, that some writers here have used a method to highlight quotes by placing them in a special window with a white background. How do I do that?)

[benotnobody]

You don't care what a native Britisher thinks about this, I know, but is it only us foreigners, or are all southern accents which seem to leave out the "h" in "sh" a bit frustrating to other Chinese as well?

Oh, we don't just leave out the "h" in "sh". You can leave out the "h" in "zh", "ch"...

On with the topic, I don't think a Taiwanese accent is bad. (I unknowingly picked one up by copying my best friend's pronunciation in my first Chinese class.) As long as your tones and your pronunciation of the other syllables are ok, you'll certainly be understood. Although, Taiwanese people sometimes use different words and/or tones from those used in the mainland.

[benotnobody]

(Hmm, there's no "quote reply" option in this forum that I can see. I've noticed, however, that some writers here have used a method to highlight quotes by placing them in a special window with a white background. How do I do that?)

Well, you've got part of the idea. You must enclose the quote using "quote" blocks. However, this follows something akin to HTML syntax. You should write it like so;

(quote) (/quote)

pretending that the normal brackets are in fact square brackets.

Or, you can just click the "Quote" button above your reply box. Whichever one you find simpler.

[Quest]

the quote button used to be there, our relevant leader removed it.

[gfross]

the quote button used to be there, our relevant leader removed it.

Ah, that's why I couldn't find it!

[Ding Wen]

To me, a native 15 years old Chinese girl, living in Shanghai, I dont play against Taiwan accent, but I don't like when someone try saying it, that's really awkward! My favorite accent is Beijing's and such;)

[Bob Dylan Thomas]

the most annoying thing about Southern / Taiwanese accents is the confusion between 十 and 四 (of course there's the tone difference, but when you're not used to it...).

i learnt chinese in Tianjin so, to me, that's the most attractive accent by far (all those errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs that just go on forever). Being exiled in Taiwan at the moment though, it took me a long time to get used to then pronounciation (and i still revert to the Northern accent for "fun" sometimes) and i can't wait to get back north of the 淮河 for a bit of 兒化.

anyway, can't it be argued that the Southern accent that doesn't distinctuish between "zh" and "z", "ng" and "n" is objectively harder (as well as aesthetically inferior) due to cutting down the number of syllables?

[woodcutter]

Well, I have always thought it was therefore absolutely harder and a royal pain in the bottom, but I think someone told me that southerners can distinguish between the local "sh" and "s" and "zh" and "z".

I think all Chinese have trouble with "ng" and "n", judging from pinyin spelling mistakes.

[Ding Wen]

^Nah.. Lots of us do know how to spell the Pinyin of "ng" and "n", just we don't care much when we actually say them.

[Lu]

As to what I hear here, even in Taiwan there is a difference between shi and si. It's not as distinct as in the north, but it's there most of the time.

[Haoqide]

I've got some friends from Fujian province, and it drives me nuts the way they leave out the 'h' in 'sh'...it makes it really hard to understand them. Not that I'm any good at my listening comprehension anyway, but it certainly makes it harder.

On another note, I've had 2 different Chinese people (one from Beijing, and one from Taiwan herself) tell me that when men speak with a Taiwanese accent, they sound gay. I don't know what they're talking about, but they don't know each other, and they both said it...

[Quest]

Fujianese seem to have some trouble with the "f" sound where they would substitute in "h".

[bokane]

Haoqide - yeah; southern accents on guys sound way effeminate. Totally 娘娘腔.

[LiYuanXi]

Fujianese seem to have some trouble with the "f" sound where they would substitute in "h".

Yup, I have lots of friends from quan zhou and they constantly replace the "f" with "h". They can speak perfectly if they want to but the prefer to change the "f" to "h".

Haoqide - yeah; southern accents on guys sound way effeminate. Totally 娘娘腔.

What kind of accents are you refering to ?

[bokane]

Mostly the Taiwanese accent, I guess, but so many Southern accents have the s/sh/c/ch/z/zh thing, and the h -> f thing, and the n -> l thing that I'm really biased (probably unfairly) against all of them.

[Lu]

I do think that for men, Beijing putonghua, with its ers, sounds better than Taiwanese guoyu, with all its a and la at the end. Taiwanese sounds better for girls. It makes the men here sound a bit girlish.

[Guest Yau]

I believe there should be no blame on taiwanese mandarin, as the "real" putonghua, a so-called universal language, is in Taiwan, NOT in mainland China in a whole sense. The evolution of taiwan accents is the result of being a real dominant language.

In china, Putonghua is medium of media and education, but it's not the language shared by the common community. Thanks to the RELATIVELY low circulation of population, different streams of china's putonghua are spoken in various isolated regions and therefore there's no need to make any adaption to accent to make communication easily in most cities.

However, when refugees from southern and northern china fleed to and settled in taipei during 40s-50s, they need an easily spoken language shared by all these permanent settlers. I tend to say that is the reason why "R" sound is LESS insisted, and the difference between zhi and zi are faded there.

When chinese powerful control has loosened, this migrant effect has appeared in shenzhen already. It's a real national city that lives thousands of settlers with different accents. The need for inter-communication is urgent. "R" is lesser, and the mispronunciation of "H" to "F" can be understood. Some more changes can be forcasted.

So, why should we blame on the multi-province accent? Putonghua isn't a language for northerners, but the whole country. No tricky sounds should be encouraged.

[Lu]

I don't really agree. If the distinction between sh and s, zh and z, ng and n fades, the language becomes harder to understand. That is not good for communication. It might be ok for the native speakers, because they are used to it, but it's hard for the non-native speakers, and they are, according to Yau, exactely the ones that need a language everybody can pronounce and understand. More distinction between sounds makes a language easier, I think.