Airui Posted October 4, 2009 at 03:02 AM Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 at 03:02 AM (edited) How would you say the term "transsexual/transgender" as in person (non-derogatory)? Edited October 4, 2009 at 05:11 AM by roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 4, 2009 at 12:04 PM Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 at 12:04 PM 易性癖者 ，变性人 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted October 5, 2009 at 10:10 PM Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 at 10:10 PM also consider 人妖. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeyah Posted October 5, 2009 at 10:53 PM Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 at 10:53 PM Yes, I agree. Actually 人妖 appears to be THE Chinese traditional term for transsexual. I first heard of it when a guy from Thailand used it in class 报告 to introduce his homeland. He said it's usually translated as "ladyboy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 6, 2009 at 01:29 AM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 01:29 AM 人妖 is derogatory and downright insulting. The OP is looking for a non-derogatory term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted October 6, 2009 at 05:26 AM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 05:26 AM 人妖 is derogatory and downright insulting. The OP is looking for a non-derogatory term. I would definitely say it is a "slang" term but derogatory? At least here in mainland it is said without any derogatory connotation. It's just used. I don't think I have ever heard someone say the neutral ones you provided except news articles and even then a lot of them still use 人妖. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 6, 2009 at 05:55 AM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 05:55 AM At least here in mainland it is said without any derogatory connotation. I suggest you go and google "人妖贬义". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted October 6, 2009 at 06:33 AM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 06:33 AM Interesting. The first result said "不过不带贬义". And the third and fourth. Only the second one said that it carried a 贬义. And that was only one response out of 3 or 4. So sorry, I'm not pulling up the same search results as you. A closer look at the third one shows that in 传统 it is a 贬义词 but in 现代 usage it 一般不带贬义. So... I still don't think that it is derogatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 6, 2009 at 07:10 AM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 07:10 AM interesting indeed first result: 对于不隐瞒真实性别，大大方方说自己是男性的也有，但也往往会被称呼为“人妖”，不过不带贬义。 有些“人妖玩家”或者玩家还往往专找这类玩家作为伴侣。 second result: 说明他（还）是人，＂妖＂者，说明他是由人变的，妖里妖气。… ... 所以“人妖”有时候等同于“娘娘腔”。是贬义词 third result: 对于不隐瞒真实性别，大大方方说自己是男性的也有，但也往往会被称呼为“人妖”，不过不带贬义。 有些“人妖玩家”或者玩家还往往专找这类玩家作为伴侣。 forth result: 对于不隐瞒真实性别，大大方方说自己是男性的也有，但也往往会被称呼为“人妖”，不过不带贬义。 有些“人妖玩家”或者玩家还往往专找这类玩家作为伴侣。 and fifth result: 对于不隐瞒真实性别，大大方方说自己是男性的也有，但也往往会被称呼为“人妖”，不过不带贬义。 有些“人妖玩家”或者玩家还往往专找这类玩家作为伴侣。 that's 4 out of 5 looks like i'm wrong again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted October 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM Well I think you are right. Especially 传统 and while I can't confirm this, my suspicion is that in certain groups it would be VERY offensive/derogatory. Perhaps overseas chinese or maybe a signaporean/malaysian chinese speaking but very different culture than the mainland. Those are just for example, not implying that I think it is that way. You represent overseas born chinese correct? If I'm wrong do forgive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted October 6, 2009 at 11:27 AM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 11:27 AM Well, consider what 妖 means. It's probably short for 妖精 when used in 人妖. I'd say it's derogatory, though it's possible that gays in mainland are trying to make it into a positive word, like gays are doing so with the word "fag" in the US. Possible. http://www.iciba.com/%E5%A6%96/ 妖 [yāo] 加入生词本 词典释义 名词 1.（妖怪） goblin; demon; evil spirit 形容词 1.（邪恶而迷惑人的） evil and fraudulent 2.（装束奇特， 作风不正派） bewitching; coquettish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 6, 2009 at 03:07 PM Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 at 03:07 PM You represent overseas born chinese correct? I am. Another definition of "人妖": 现代网络中的意义 现代网络流行术语。“人妖”是指在网络世界中（QQ、论坛、网络游戏等）的虚拟形象的性别与真实相反的人，是对此类人的蔑称，多指男性。例如在网络游戏中男性玩家选择女性的游戏角色，则称为人妖。 不过有部分网游性别限定（即部分职业只有女性角色）或者女性角色极其普遍，则一般不会对其男玩家称呼为人妖，即使称呼也一般不带贬义。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flywhc Posted October 8, 2009 at 02:34 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 at 02:34 PM 对于不隐瞒真实性别，大大方方说自己是男性的也有，但也往往会被称呼为“人妖”，不过不带贬义。 有些“人妖玩家”或者玩家还往往专找这类玩家作为伴侣。 "不过不带贬义" meant normally this word is 贬义 but in this case (in this particular Internet game) it is not. 变性人 is non-derogatory term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 9, 2009 at 03:02 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 at 03:02 AM "不过不带贬义" meant normally this word is 贬义 but in this case (in this particular Internet game) it is not.变性人 is non-derogatory term 是的.谢谢你的说明. 在虚拟的网络世界里,很多概念都得重新定义,在现实世界里的贬义词,被带进虚拟世界里可能变成了褒义词. 但,这都不重要,也许有些人也只不过为了反对而反对,为了证明自己而坚持. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted October 9, 2009 at 04:18 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 at 04:18 AM (edited) But that doesn't mean that the word has a negative connotation outside of that realm either. Not always but many times we see that attitudes on the internet are a reflection of society. Not always but we can't say that it is for sure in 贬义 in the rest of usage and only not in this game. That's a bit of a stretch. Edited October 9, 2009 at 04:39 AM by muyongshi needed to be in english Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 9, 2009 at 04:47 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 at 04:47 AM 不过这不能完全排除在现代社会当中“人妖”这个单词没有贬义的可能性，对吧？网络跟现实却是有区别但是网络也往往能够代替社会的一些概念。 在虚拟世界里，有些人会选择扮演现实生活中无法实现的角色，例如异性或邪恶的角色，对他们的这些虚拟角色来说，越含贬义的词儿反而越符合他们的角色形象，因而越受到他们的欢迎和接受。 在现实生活里，当然你所说的可能性不是完全不可能存在。就像 Gato 所说的，有些“人妖”可能会企图把这个词儿“正常化”。但我认为，有"妖"字的词儿很难除去它的贬义。人们会用“妖”字来形容某些人，就是因为“妖”字有其挥之不去的贬义，就像一个妖永远都脱离不了它的妖性一样。 你住在中国对吧？我建议你到街上去找几个人，对他们说“你长得好像人妖啊！”，然后再向他们解释你完全是褒义，没有贬义，再观察他们的反应，你应该可以找到答案吧。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted October 9, 2009 at 05:03 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 at 05:03 AM 你住在中国对吧？我建议你到街上去找几个人，对他们说“你长得好像人妖啊！”，然后再向他们解释你完全是褒义，没有贬义，再观察他们的反应，你应该可以找到答案吧。 I do understand what you are saying however when I tell people I am going to Thailand/been to Thailand depending on the exact circumstances, they first ask about 人妖, then ask if I have seen a 人妖, and their third question usually goes something like this "听说人妖还是挺漂亮的，是吗？" so I think for your question on the streets, the reaction may not be in regards to looks but more in regards to the concept of being a 人妖. I can't prove my feelings on this. There is not a way to do that. But the way people use it here makes me think that it is not derogatory in most contexts and usages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted October 9, 2009 at 05:34 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 at 05:34 AM Sorry, I just deleted two of my posts above. I didn't know that we're not supposed to write in Mandarin here. I've been writing and replying to a lot of posts in Mandarin for the past two days and this morning I found it very hard to write in English all of a sudden. Does this happen to anyone else, or is it just me again? It seems to happen to me from time to time and I wonder why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 9, 2009 at 06:31 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 at 06:31 AM And I just undeleted them as they've already been replied to. However, the T&C's (linked to from every reply page) do ask that posts are kept accessible to anyone who can't read Chinese easily. Does this happen to anyone else, or is it just me again? There's also something in there about off-topic posts /Grumpy admin crawls back into his cave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flywhc Posted October 22, 2009 at 12:06 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 at 12:06 AM I do understand what you are saying however when I tell people I am going to Thailand/been to Thailand depending on the exact circumstances, they first ask about 人妖, then ask if I have seen a 人妖, and their third question usually goes something like this "听说人妖还是挺漂亮的，是吗？" so I think for your question on the streets, the reaction may not be in regards to looks but more in regards to the concept of being a 人妖. I can't prove my feelings on this. There is not a way to do that. But the way people use it here makes me think that it is not derogatory in most contexts and usages. In such place, 人妖 is a job title so it is not derogatory anymore. To compare with, it is not offensive to ask a lady if she is a hooker (maybe work girl?) in a brothel but you will get trouble ask this question in most of other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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