Taking savings out of China

[XiaoXi]

I plan to do business in China while studying the language but I'm concerned after making some money in China and building up savings I'll have trouble taking the money out of China. I plan to stay there for 2 years but upon leaving I understandably want to take all my current savings out of the country. Does anyone have any insight on this?

Thanks.

[Don_Horhe]

You can either wire it with Western Union or something similar and end up being charged an arm and a leg, or you can get an international double currency debit card and just withdraw everything you've managed to save up from an ATM in your home country, with the fees being nothing when compared to what they would charge you at the former. Here's how and where to get a debit card.

Good luck!

[XiaoXi]

Ok that's one possibility although I think withdrawing cash from an ATM is gonna have a somewhat low daily limit. In England its about £250 and with a fee attached every time that's gonna add up to be a lot too. One idea I was thinking is since I use HSBC bank in England which also has branches in China would it not be possible to simply transfer the money from the Chinese branch back to the England branch?

I wonder if anyone has any experience of that.

[jobin]

Hey, good luck XiaoXi. If you are a foreigner coming to china to 'make money' you may find the road to wealth hugely difficult. At this stage of your process, still planning, my suggestion would be to focus your attention on getting the money, not carrying it away. You can easily convert RMB to US dollars in china, then simply carry them over to HongKong or out of the country and do as you like. You can also carry RMB to HK and swap for usd, within limits. I have found that even banks that share the same name cannot simply transfer money in and out of china due to the goofy rules of banking here in china and the fact that chinese money is not respected over the world. Let me ask, what is your business plan?

[XiaoXi]

I know it can be very hard for a foreigner to make money in China but I have a huge advantage. My wife is Chinese and her father is already a very successful businessman with a huge network in Tianjin. My business plan I cannot divulge but even though its very different to what her father does, we'll still benefit greatly from him and his network.

Your solution has a big problem. Even if the money is converted to USD or whatever, its still IN China so how do I get it out? I can't imagine it would be easy to leave the country with many thousands of dollars in my luggage.

[imron]

Chinese citizens can transfer large amounts of money overseas through banks. Foreigners however are subject to restrictions. The solution? Get your wife to transfer the money for you.

[xianhua]

My wife is Chinese and her father is already a very successful businessman with a huge network in Tianjin

The more I read this forum, the more I think I’m the only foreigner who didn’t marry into a wealthy Chinese family . Ah well, on the plus side, I feel privileged to be able to visit and live amongst a traditional rural family each year in an existence that is rapidly disappearing.

[XiaoXi]

The more I read this forum, the more I think I’m the only foreigner who didn’t marry into a wealthy Chinese family . Ah well, on the plus side, I feel privileged to be able to visit and live amongst a traditional rural family each year in an existence that is rapidly disappearing.

In my defense I didn't know her dad was wealthy until I'd already proposed to her. Moreover, I didn't really know exactly how wealthy he was until towards the wedding ceremony which was actually after we'd registered (married). It certainly didn't affect my reason for marriage since no matter how wealthy he is it doesn't affect how wealthy I am. Its only become useful that after three years of marriage I've decided to take the business to China that I've already made successful in the US and UK.

[xianhua]

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that your father-in-laws position had any influence on your decision.

I just sense that the majority of people on here who have married into Chinese families on here, have married into wealthy families. However, I suppose this is quite logical when you think about the situations in which westerners would meet Chinese partners. For example, if the Chinese person is studying abroad, then their family have enough to send their children abroad etc. If I had not chosen to teach English in a small rural town, then I would never have been in the situation to meet a person from this background.

[XiaoXi]

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that your father-in-laws position had any influence on your decision.

OK fair enough, I just thought it necessary to say that anyway.

I just sense that the majority of people on here who have married into Chinese families on here, have married into wealthy families. However, I suppose this is quite logical when you think about the situations in which westerners would meet Chinese partners. For example, if the Chinese person is studying abroad, then their family have enough to send their children abroad etc. If I had not chosen to teach English in a small rural town, then I would never have been in the situation to meet a person from this background.

Exactly. I actually dated a Chinese girl before my wife and her parents were also quite well off. Her dad was a quite famous artist in China. Anyway back onto the topic, does anyone have responses on how I can manage to get money out of China? As far as I'm aware I can't just hop on a plane with god knows how much money in a suitcase.

[jbradfor]

Exactly how much money are you talking about?

I believe you can carry small amounts (<$10k) without declaring it in most countries, although you should check with China's rules. Just do that a couple of times.

If you talking about large amount (e.g >$250,000), why would you trust a bunch of strangers on the internet?

@imron

Chinese citizens can transfer large amounts of money overseas through banks. Foreigners however are subject to restrictions. The solution? Get your wife to transfer the money for you.

Or what's wrong with Imron's solution?

[animal world]

Exactly. I actually dated a Chinese girl before my wife and her parents were also quite well off. Her dad was a quite famous artist in China.

Those things can happen when you're Superman. Anyway, i chime in with JBradfor's question about why trusting a bunch of strangers on the internet. Doesn't your wealthy father-in-law know how to get your as-yet unearned money out of China?

[XiaoXi]

Exactly how much money are you talking about?

I believe you can carry small amounts (<$10k) without declaring it in most countries, although you should check with China's rules. Just do that a couple of times.

Yes it'll be more than $10k.

If you talking about large amount (e.g >$250,000), why would you trust a bunch of strangers on the internet?

Trust doesn't come into it. Some of you may have an idea or may have gone through the process before so I can take your suggestion and look into it to see if its viable.

Those things can happen when you're Superman.

No idea what you mean by that.

Doesn't your wealthy father-in-law know how to get your as-yet unearned money out of China?

Apparently not. Well he's never been out of China and certainly not lived outside China so I guess its something he's never had to deal with.

Or what's wrong with Imron's solution?

Yes that's one possibility that I'm looking into but going through the banks probably has high fees and complications.

[xianhua]

Those things can happen when you're Superman.

No idea what you mean by that.

I was just wondering that too. I just checked to see if Lois Lane's father was an artist, but couldn't find anything conclusive.

Yes that's one possibility that I'm looking into but going through the banks probably has high fees and complications.

My friend's father spent a couple of hours in the Bank of China arranging for a fair sum of money to be transferred to his son's corresponding account in Australia to allow him to put down a deposit on a house. I only know that the transfer was successful and it didn't appear to be too painful.

I can't see any way of avoiding the banks, but if you did want to avoid them, and were willing to tie the money up in China, then could you not invest in property (albeit in your wife's name)? You'll be onto a winner the day when the RMB is allowed to float freely.

[xianhua]

You mentioned HSBC earlier too. We are in the process of opening a Bank of China account, to allow us to transfer sums back and forth more easily. Western Union is just getting too expensive. You need to go there in person to open an account, so if you are near to London, Birmingham or Manchester (I can't see how you wouldn't be near to one of those unless you live in Cornwall), you could open it and keep it as an extra option to your HSBC account. I couldn't tell you the transfer limits though, but a quick phone call should sort that. The website just mentions that students can transfer 30k Sterling from China before they come here.

[XiaoXi]

My friend's father spent a couple of hours in the Bank of China arranging for a fair sum of money to be transferred to his son's corresponding account in Australia to allow him to put down a deposit on a house. I only know that the transfer was successful and it didn't appear to be too painful.

Well that's good to hear.

I can't see any way of avoiding the banks, but if you did want to avoid them, and were willing to tie the money up in China, then could you not invest in property (albeit in your wife's name)? You'll be onto a winner the day when the RMB is allowed to float freely.

Investing in property is exactly what my father in law suggested. Certainly a good idea and especially in super fast developing China. But the issue is at some time or another the property will need to be sold and the money transferred out of the country. Its always gonna come down to that. I guess unless I'm gonna use some less 'official' method, banks are the best option.

You mentioned HSBC earlier too. We are in the process of opening a Bank of China account, to allow us to transfer sums back and forth more easily. Western Union is just getting too expensive. You need to go there in person to open an account, so if you are near to London, Birmingham or Manchester (I can't see how you wouldn't be near to one of those unless you live in Cornwall), you could open it and keep it as an extra option to your HSBC account. I couldn't tell you the transfer limits though, but a quick phone call should sort that..

We get Bank of China in the UK? I didn't know that. I live in Birmingham.

The website just mentions that students can transfer 30k Sterling from China before they come here.

Yes but that's transferring IN. China just love that. Its when you want to take money out of China that they kick up a fuss. We spoke to HSBC while in China and they said we could transfer up to 50,000 RMB in to China per day with no fee on their end. So it seems Bank of China allow more to be transferred in to China than HSBC do.

[xianhua]

Yes, but that's transferring IN.

No, I mean the Chinese students studying in the UK can transfer 30k Sterling from their Chinese bank account to the UK account before they come here.

We get Bank of China in the UK?

They offer competitive mortgages too.

[XiaoXi]

No, I mean the Chinese students studying in the UK can transfer 30k Sterling from their Chinese bank account to the UK account before they come here.

Oh right! I read what you said too quickly. Do you know if that's a single transaction? It probably is. Anyway I'll certainly check out Bank of China. Thanks for your help.

[fanglu]

Two other ideas:

While simply walking out with large amounts of money in your luggage (in the form of a bank cheque made out to yourself, rather than cash, to be safe) is illegal in China, its not illegal to bring it in to many other countries. You just have to declare it and you'll be asked where it came from. The chance of your luggage being searched for a high-value cheque at the beijing airport is probably pretty low.

Since you already have a company in another country you could work out a way of transfer pricing it out (having the foreign company sell goods or services at above market value to the chinese company). You'd likely end up being double taxed though.

Having said that though, you should probably look into the formalities of simply using wire transfer. Like other posters I have friends who have sent money to buy houses etc from China to other countries. Even if there are rules that the transfer needs to be approved by a government department, if you are related to a powerful family I'm sure the approval can be arranged.

[gerri]

The mention of cheques reminds me: Has anyone bought traveler's cheques in China? AmEx ones seem to be available, for example (according to their website).

I must say, it does sound rather funny to "know" that there will be more than 10k made and to worry about getting that money out (even if the business model was successful in the USA and UK) before actually starting operations in China. Then again, better over-prepared than blue-eyed...