会 Usage

[bossidy]

Can someone explain why 会 is used in the following sentence? Would the meaning be the same if it was omitted?

一个小时以前,她会和这个刚认识的男人一起走进她的房间。

An hour earlier, she and the guy she just met entered her room together.

[renzhe]

The way I understand, the translation is incorrect. The Chinese sentence insinuates that she had (or might have) done that, but it doesn't emphatically state that this is indeed what she did.

If you omit it, then it is a statement of fact. But I think that you'd need a 了 after 走进 then.

At least that's my understanding. I'd be interested in other people's view, though.

[bossidy]

Doesn't "一个小时以前" make the 了 unnecessary? Thanks

[renzhe]

No, 了 has little to do with when something happens.

It indicates a change of state (and a number of other things).

[HashiriKata]

The way I understand, the translation is incorrect. The Chinese sentence insinuates that she had (or might have) done that, but it doesn't emphatically state that this is indeed what she did.

I think renzhe misunderstood the sentence. 会 can be used with something that has actually happened, as in this sentence: she & the man did go into her room. The 会 here is used to imply that she herself couldn't believe it, that such a wonderful thing could have happened to her. So Bossidy's translation is actually not incorrect.

[renzhe]

Now that you put it that way, you're right. The translation still doesn't really convey this emotion, though.

I think context would help, in any case.

[HashiriKata]

Here's the context:

一个小时以前,她会和这个刚认识的男人一起走进她的房间。这是真的？ 还是她在做梦的？

Just joking , but I think bossidy can tell you the context.

[jiangping]

The 會 could show an assumption by the speaker of what "she" should have been doing at that time, a "prediction" of what happened in the past. So the translation would be something like:

"An hour ago she should have gone into her room with the guy she just met"

In this sense the 會 is used to mean "strong likelihood", like in 今天會下雨 "it will rain today".

I came to this conclusion after talking to two native Chinese speakers, though they both said the sentence sounded very strange and unnatural with the 會. I guess the context is really quite important here!

Edited October 11, 2009 at 01:26 AM by jiangping

[HashiriKata]

"An hour ago she should have gone into her room with the guy she just met"

In this sense the 會 is used to mean "strong likelihood", like in 今天會下雨 "it will rain today".

Not really. I've found the passage (the context) and it only confirms what I said in my earlier posts:

她没有想到，一个小时以前,她会和这个刚认识的男人一起走进她的房间。现在，这个名字叫高亮已经是她的男朋友，她最喜欢的人了。

(http://www.scribd.com/doc/18417246/c364850222c917370122dea5d458001c)

So, 会 as used here is not for something that will happen or might have happened. It only indicates that someone is marvelling at some unbelievable reality, something that has actually happened or exists. Here's another example:

她一边爬上车去，坐在车夫身旁，一边很想知道为什么会有这么好的运气找到她的门上来。

(She mounted beside the coachman, wondering why this good fortune had happened to her. )

Incidentally, this use of 会 is the same use in another thread: "为什么会有星星". As above, 会有 here is not about a possibility but about a marvelling (or strange) reality. Some more examples to consider:

Why is there such a phenomenon?

为什么会有这样的现象呢？

Why is it that so many people think that being perfect is the way to go?

为什么会有那么多的人想要完美？

[msittig]

The 她没有想到 at the beginning really is crucial to understanding the complete sentence. Context is pretty important.

[Mugi]

HashiriKata, ultimately these examples are all about possibility.

E.g.

她一边爬上车去，坐在车夫身旁，一边很想知道为什么会有这么好的运气找到她的门上来。

(She mounted beside the coachman, wondering why this good fortune had happened to her. )

This would be more accurately translated as: ... wondering how this good fortune could have happened to her.

You're making a fundamental mistake in translating 为什么 as "why" in these situations; 为什么有 and 为什么会有 are not semantically identical (If they were, in all likelihood the more complex form would have dropped out of usage). "Why" is okay for the former, but the latter should be rendered as "How ... can/could it be that..." As I mentioned in the 为什么会有星星 thread, this is a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless.

[HashiriKata]

As I mentioned in the 为什么会有星星 thread, this is a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless.

So you don't think that in post #9 above I agreed with you? In the post in question, I think I even pointed out explicitly what additional nuance 会 is contributing in the combination 会有.

PS:

This would be more accurately translated as: "... wondering how this good fortune could have happened to her."

You seem to have missed it but this is exactly what I said in post #5 earlier, trying to avail our habitual association of 会 with can/could. The significance of 会 in this context is, however, still as explained in post #9. Edited October 14, 2009 at 06:03 AM by HashiriKata

[Mugi]

Sorry, didn't read #5 before. I agree with your assertion there.

And upon re-reading your #9, I think I understand what you're trying to say. It wasn't very clear to me at first. But to understand the function of 会, translating 为什么会有 as a simple "why" is inaccurate - it should be "How can/could it be that ..."

Apologies for not taking more time to read the entire thread when you first directed me to it!

[lutiayi]

The Context is necessary to understanding.

1.没想到，一个小时以前,她会和这个刚认识的男人一起走进她的房间。

没想到indicate 走进房间happened

2.要是下雨的话，一个小时以前,她会和这个刚认识的男人一起走进她的房间。

要是下雨的话indicate 走进房间not happened

[contraction]

hello ,bossidy

“会” means “will”,"would".

I believe "会" can't be omitted.

but the sentence omits "如果是" in the front.

the exactly sentence meaning is:

(如果是)一个小时以前,她会和这个刚认识的男人一起走进她的房间

(If now were) an hour earlier, she and the guy she just met would entered her room together.

so nothing happened in reality

the meaning is right if it's a complete sentence.