Image more important than honesty in China?

[Scoobyqueen]

A friend of mine has just arrived in Germany to undertake studies at a university. She lives in halls of residence. She had only been there two weeks when a friend of a friend barged in on her life asking her for a “Chinese” favour. The new friend didn’t have anywhere to stay so asked her if she could stay at her place for a few days until she found somewhere. This has now turned into several weeks with no sign of the room mate making any attempts to find her own place. The room mate has more or less taken over her 11 square-metre room, watching videos, chatting, smoking (!) and doesn’t take her shoes off and complains that my friend is studying too hard when she herself is so bored.

Apparently the Chinese etiquette, does not allow my friend to tell the room mate she has to leave because it wouldn’t be polite. Also even if she did tell her, she fears the room mate will go around telling everyone how she got thrown out and she wont risk that.

I have heard similar stories from other Chinese friends. The etiquette basically seems to be it is your obligation to help a fellow Chinese in need when abroad.

It makes me appreciate the German directness so much more (even if it does seem rude at first).

[Don_Horhe]

Well, just tell her to 入乡随俗 and kick her friend out. Manners is manners, but your 'ealth's your 'ealth, metaphorically speaking.

[imron]

Do the halls of residence allow people to share rooms like this? I imagine they might have some sort of regulation about allowing guests staying long-term. If she could find a way to surreptitiously mention it to someone who cares about such things and then they could come around and say it's not allowed. Then your friend could be all like “对不起，我没办法”, and would get rid of her without needing to be the one to ask her to leave, thereby preserving face.

[jbradfor]

The etiquette basically seems to be it is your obligation to help a fellow Chinese in need when abroad.

I think that is the etiquette. But I think proper etiquette also has obligations on the guest as well. Which it seems the guest is abusing.

If imron's solution doesn't work, maybe this is a time that the best defense is a good offense: your friend should go around telling all the Chinese what a bad guest this person is, so when it comes time to kick this free-loader out people will understand.

[imron]

your friend should go around telling all the Chinese what a bad guest this person is, so when it comes time to kick this free-loader out people will understand.

I don't think this would work so well, especially if it ever got back to the freeloader that your friend was doing this.

Another option would be for her to set some hard rules. e.g. say that it's her room that she (or probably more like her parents) is paying for and so: no-smoking inside, shoes need to be taken off upon entry, no watching videos while she's studying etc. Then if the guest complains, she should suggest that these rules are needed otherwise it's difficult to study and that would be unfair to her parents who have worked so hard and paid all this money to send her overseas to study and blah blah blah, and so if the guest can't abide by such rules then perhaps she should look for somewhere else to stay without such rules.

[leeyah]

What goes by the name of 面子 in China is actually a very manifold & controversial phenomenon. So, I'll just quote what I've heard a Chinese person say recently, if it may be of any help：

"很多中国人有教育没有教养“

He said he felt deep shame because of their appalling lack of manners and even more for the fact that they aren't even aware how bad this whole thing is. He then proceeded to explain that it's no wonder because the parents of today's students were brought up by the generation who were teenagers during the Cultural Revolution and have 受过文化大革命的迫害 but that he hopes the next generation or two will find ways to restore all those things we have always associated with traditional Chinese politeness, which is occasionally still, although very rarely, encountered in present day China.

Anyway, I also hope there will be more kind and helping people like your friend, and less of those who abuse their kindness. Judging by some young people I've met (even if only in Guangzhou), there is still hope.

[xianhua]

He then proceeded to explain that it's no wonder because the parents of today's students were brought up by the generation who were teenagers during the Cultural Revolution

Or in many cases (particulary in the countryside) the children are raised by the generation who were teenagers during the Cultural Revolution i.e their grandparents, whilst their parents are off in the cities earning enough to pay for their education.

Haivng said that, many of the manners which used to be a part of our society in Britain, seem to have vanished. Given the trend for spitting in public, I really think we need to copy Beijing and introduce fines for the 2012 Olympics.

[James Johnston]

Apparently the Chinese etiquette, does not allow my friend to tell the room mate she has to leave because it wouldn’t be polite. Also even if she did tell her, she fears the room mate will go around telling everyone how she got thrown out and she wont risk that.

Etiquette doesn't prescribe that your friend has to allow this person to stay indefinitely. Etiquette is just the unwritten rules to a game at which your friend is currently being out played.

Exchange is at the base of Chinese relations, as indicated by the term Lishang-wanglai (礼尚往来). It's a clear rule that you have to give your host gifts in exchange for staying with them or compensate in some other way. The longer you stay the bigger the debt incurred. I think it's pretty unlikely that the guest would go around complaining when it would only demonstrate their own lack of civility. It also pretty normal to criticise people who don't follow these customs as 'not understanding etiquette' (不懂礼貌). You'd probably not say this to the 'friend of a friend' but to the original friend and expect the message to get through. After all, the first friend is losing face having indirectly introduced the second friend who is causing this trouble.

Another approach would be to bring up how different the Chinese and Germans are. Your friend could say,

'I've just heard this German expression: Gäste wie Fisch, nach drei Tagen fangen sie an zu stinken. Really the Germans are so unfriendly compared to us Chinese. I mean, you've been staying here for weeks and it's only now you're beginning to smell.'

[leeyah]

Oh, no, better not go that far, but your friend is Chinese and is surely aware of this. I mean the idea of bringing the guest to shame and making her realize her mistake and eventually apologize, seems highly unlikely with this lingo. Although the German saying may sound like a joke to us, I'm afraid if used on a Chinese person it would be taken as a downright insult and would mean complete loss of face for him/her. Anyway, that's what the whole fuss about saving face is - one wrong step and a kind favour may erupt into a real 中式看面子 avalanche of abuse from the "grateful guest".

Actually, the German saying reminded me of "every guest is welcome for three days" i.e. "no one can be so welcome a guest that he will not annoy his host after three days" which is attributed to the Roman playwright Titus Maccius Plautus, so it's originally Latin, only borrowed into German (& other European languages). It has many other nice versions. I like this one: "superior people never make long visits". Make it Chinese and it may sound something like this >> 短住称君子，住久是小人 。。。

(:wink:)

[Lu]

In Dutch the saying even rhymes! Logé's en vis blijven drie dagen fris (Guests and fish stay fresh for three days).

[zerolife]

But the Chinese etiquette also says that you take off your stinky shoe when you enter someone elses room and you don't smoke in someone elses place unless you have their permission

Yes, Chinese tend to have a more community centered view than the individual "I only care about myself" Western view but I don't think their is an obligation that you have to help someone, especially if that other is abusing your help.

[Scoobyqueen]

Thanks to everyone for the contributions.

I used Imron's suggestion which was very good referring to the contract. (dont the Germans just love a long contract) and my friend did use that ammunition. The friend just said " I know". she then orchestrated that the bed the room mate was sleeping on needed to be returned to its owner and on top of that she found another flat for her. So in other words it worked out but probably in a very Chinese way.