My daughter wants to teach English in China . . .

[eatfastnoodle]

Well, you believe what you wanna believe. Go ask any Chinese, in real life or on-line, inside or outside China, where is safer, Shanghai or some remote village in Hennan.

[Lu]

Yes, but the question was how safe a foreigner would be, not a Chinese. There's probably a difference, partly because a Chinese would be much more integrated in the local power structure than an outsider, and partly because a foreigner who gets in serious trouble would attract international mafan. And partly because of the novelty. When people are staring at someone all day long, it gets harder to harm them.

I don't know about differences between city and countryside, but China is safer than any other country I've been to.

[Lugubert]

More derail on safety.

I don't know about differences between city and countryside, but China is safer than any other country I've been to.

The only time I've ever been pickpocketed was in Beijing during the last throbs of the recent anniversary. I was careless about my wallet in a leg pocket when entering a bus in a crowd. I still feel safer in China than in most other countries.

My worst feeling of insecurity was being alone in broad daylight on the main street of Miami Beach. Having lost my way after dusk walking towards the place where I stayed in New Delhi to find me in an alley that probably hadn't seen a white man ever before was no problem. China felt everywhere as safe as in Delhi or in my Swedish home town (a total of some three months' worth of travelling China so far).

I won't derail too much more on my views on the background and experience needed to usefully teach a language... It takes a lot more than just having the language as your first language. Ideally, you should know the source and the target languages on a fairly high academic level. You should know at least the basics of teaching, of course especially of languages. For a perhaps diametrically opposite anecdote, if you enrol for oral Chinese in Sweden and notice that a first semester student has to correct the teacher's use of pinyin, you won't sign up for that company any more on any subject.

I have taught languages to adults of several nationalities. It's exhaustingly challenging if you want to be successful [added: and if you want the pupils to succeed]. I was lucky. My then wife had the expertise needed, and I think I made sufficient good use of her vast collection of teaching aids.

Edited March 2, 2010 at 10:25 PM by Lugubert

[atitarev]

The original poster must have disappeared.

I have just posted in classifieds - my 17 y/o (18 in July) daughter is also looking for a job in China. She is with us in Melbourne, she would go if there was a job offer.

Can she get a legal job without certification? What type of certification is required by the government?

Can someone help, please?

[anonymoose]

One is supposed to have a degree in order to legally get a job.

[roddy]

Tricky one - my gut instinct is that any school willing to take an unqualified 18 year old (even one who's had such an excellent upbringing, I'm sure ) is going to be dubious in some aspect - either they simply can't keep qualified teachers, or are so disorganized they've left everything till the last minute, or they think a young girl won't complain when asked to do ridiculous hours, etc.

Legally - I'm not sure if the degree+two years experience rule is nationwide or just applied province by province, and how fixed in stone that is. I would expect someone in these circumstances to end up working on a tourist or business visa, to be honest.

It's also not the best time of year to be looking - this semester is well underway, the summer camps are still quite far off. My inclination is to suggest she gets a job at home, starts saving up, and looks for a summer job (when standards tend to drop as it's all temporary), perhaps some kind 'gap year / volunteer placement' - not something I'd usually recommend, but in this case . . . - and accepts that she may end up backpacking with the rest of the gap year folk.

Also worth sending in her CV to the likes of chinajob.com, chinaesl.com.cn, and posting it on eslcafe.com or wherever, and see what turns up - but as I've said, approach everything with caution.

[ArthurBorges]

There are private schools that will hire her but they will be unable to secure a work visa for her and she'll have to leave when her visa is up.

Most private school students are anything from age 3 years to adolescence.

In principle, state schools like to see a four-year degree and/or teaching/training experience and/or TEFL certification. She can get the lattermost off a three-month course.

Tell her to make lots of friends so someone will go to bat for her if the employer diddles with her wages.

[anonymoose]

but they will be unable to secure a work visa

In other words, illegal.

[Chinadoog]

''These days, with the hike in inflation, especially with all the bubble in the real state market, 4000+ a month won't give you a comfortable living in any of the 1st tier cities. ''

What do you consider to be the first tier cities? In Chengdu, 4,000 a month (housing included) is enough to live very well on.

[imron]

In China, the 1st-tier cities are typically considered to be Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou. Chengdu would count as 2nd-tier.

[skylee]

In China, the 1st-tier cities are typically considered to be Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou.

Glad about Guangzhou being considered as 1st-tier. But how about Shenzhen and Chongqing? And what are the criteria? The level of earning?

[chrix]

According to this website, it is connected to how China was opened up to outside investment and modernisation in the 80s, and the authors also seem to count Shenzhen amongst them (though later in the text, they only mention the Big Three):

In the 1980s, instead of opening up the whole of China, China, as part of an economic risk reduction strategy decided to develop special economic zones and open up cities near the coast for foreign investments. Coastal cities aid imports and exports. In addition, agglomerating the “test” cities can develop economies of scale relating to transportation infrastructure. Furthermore, resources from western China were drawn and consolidated to support these strategically positioned coastal cities prominently for Beijing in the north, Shanghai in the midst, and Guangzhou in the south, with Shenzhen acting as a gateway from Hong Kong.

[imron]

I'm not sure of the exact criteria used for judging, but things like size (population and space) and economy both play a big role.

[atitarev]

The discussion veered off into importance of cities but anyway, thanks for the advice, guys. My daughter may still get that job, thanks to some guanxi, although the pay will be lower, there will be some temporary paid internship, a trial period and a lower pay for less engagement at first - helping to teach first. It is a good arrangement. My daughter is not learning Chinese, not sure if she becomes more interested and motivated when she gets to China. I think she will, she was a good student and very determined to use this opportunity.

[LurvJenny]

Safety is not a big issue over there. I think its great that as a parent, you're gathering as much information as possible and from the sounds of it, you've got an open mind to her studying Chinese.

Personally, I think its great that she wants to go. It will open up her mind to new and different things. Many of my friends have told me that they regret not doing something spontaneous with their lives or just packing up and go travel somewhere, and now its come to a point in their life where they cannot go because of their jobs or businesses.

You end up in a catch 22. When you're still a student, you have all the free time (especially during vacations) but you don't have the finances to get there. When you're working, you have the finances, but just can't find the time.

It's great that you're so supportive in allowing your daughter to grow as a person.

I wish her all the best in her decisions

[yang1504]

Chengdu has been boasting as the fourth important city on the mainland, in aspects such as economy, culture, history and literature. But then, the Chinese version of 'the big smoke' will always be Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou.