Need Translation Help Please

[eleven2]

Hi. Bought an old chinese bronze vase at auction many years ago. I thought it was unsigned until recently. I looked inside and there is a 20 character mark. I think the bottom rotted off and was repaired. The person who did the repair put the bottom on upside-down, therefore the mark is inside. I hope I am showing the mark right-side-up, not sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have no knowledge of the language.

[Guest Pipas]

all I can recognize is

(曼?)(?)父乍宝

(?)用享孝宗

室用匄眉寿

子孙永宝用

Hope this is correct

Edited November 7, 2009 at 04:37 PM by Pipas

[Guest Pipas]

曼龚父乍宝

簋用享孝宗

室用匄眉寿

子子孙孙永宝用

Ok, in short, someone hopes that this ritual vessel

for offering sacrifices at the ancestral temple

will be a forever treasure

for his numerous sons and grandsons (for use in similar sacrifices) .

And I hope someone will provide a much better translation

[eleven2]

Wow, thank you for your interest. Is this Chinese? Is there any indication of the age of this message? Do you think that the man who made the vessel created the message? Did he sign his name?

It is a large bronze vessel with inlaid enamel on the outside. Do you have any idea what kind of ritual it might have been Used for? Now I am really intrigued. Thanks again. Lee:clap

[Guest Pipas]

Did he sign his name?

eleven2, I am not an expert, I can assume his surname is Man (曼).

The inscription itself seems to be typical of the Shang Zhou period, but maybe this vessel was made during the Qing dynasty or maybe it's a fake, I don't know.

I looked inside and there is a 20 character mark. I think the bottom rotted off and was repaired. The person who did the repair put the bottom on upside-down, therefore the mark is inside.

"Such early Zhou inscriptions are inside the vessels, where they would be covered when in use, and it may therefore be that they were intended for the eyes of the ancestors as much as to impress the living participants"

from here, p.22

If you are intrigued you can read more in the book. Or you can find some other book on this subject.

[Daan]

Wow! Interesting. Could you provide a photograph of the entire vessel? I don't think this is an authentic Shang dynasty vessel. It's likely to be an imitation, I'm afraid. Not only are authentic vessels way too rare for you to have accidentally bought them in an auction, the characters also look too crisp to me

If I have any time left, I will see tomorrow if I can dig up anything on the original vessel.

[Daan]

Just to support my assertion in my previous post that such vessels are quite rare: see this article to get an idea on how expensive such vessels are these days

[eleven2]

Thanks again for you interest. I am posting some photos. I bought this vase because it is pretty. I assumed that it was maybe 100 years old. I do not know much about Chinese art and antiques. Sorry for the flash. And, again, thanks for your time. Lee

[Daan]

It is very pretty! It's not an original Zhou dynasty vessel, but the inscription is authentic. The original vessel plays an important role in the study of the early concept of ancestral temples, it seems.