Chinese Catholics and the books of the Early Jesuits

[qi ke]

I was wondering if the works of early Jesuits is still being read by Catholics of China (government-approved or Underground) such as 天主實義 (True Doctrine of Lord of Heaven) by Matteo Ricci, S.J., and 七克大全 (Seven Triumphs) by Diego Pantoja.

I'm guessing if Modernism in the Catholic Church caused these books to be in oblivion, since the books talk about fighting hard against vices and has very strong criticism of Buddhism.

[qi ke]

"I'm guessing if" should be "I'm guessing that"

[qi ke]

Could anyone direct me to a Chinese Catholic online forum and translate the question regarding whether or not the books are well known or not in Chinese Catholic circles?

[fanglu]

The low number of hits for either title in google, and the fact that the hits there are are mainly about ancient books implies no.

I was under the impression Ricci's book was considered heretical by the catholic church, in which case its unlikely anyone too much would be reading it.

[isela]

I am a Chinese Catholic (baptized in a government-approved church in 2007).

Before my baptism, I had a half-year course at the church to learn the Catholic doctrines. My impression is that older members in the church (I'd say people over 60 yrs old, likely from Catholic families converted well before 1949) tend to say their prayers in 文言文 (you can find such examples as "The Lord's Prayer" and "The Rosary" here and here in wenyan). I think this must be due to the old missionary work.

But our class (one that the general public is given) was organized wholly in modern language and talked about ideas mostly in the context of modern events. Thus, I haven't had the chance to learn about the two persons and their work you mentioned.

However, if you are in China, I would really encourage you to go direct talk with a priest. I'm more than certain that you can get something from them, and it's much more efficient. Bottom line is that they are very knowledgeable and helpful people indeed.

Good luck!

[qi ke]

What is the difference between the old and the modern prayers?

[isela]

Here are two examples:

天主经(The Lord's Prayer)：

－文言文：

　　我父在天，

　　愿尔名圣，尔国临格，

　　尔旨得成，在地若天。

　　所需之粮，今日赐我。

　　我免人负，求免我负。

　　俾勿我试，拯我出恶，

　　以国权荣，皆尔所有，

　　爰及世世，诚心所愿。

－白话文：

　　我们的天父

　　愿祢的名受显扬

　　愿祢的国来临

　　愿祢的旨意奉行在人间

　　如同在天上

　　求祢今天赏给我们日用的食粮

　　求祢宽恕我们的罪过

　　如同我们宽恕别人一样

　　不要让我们陷于诱惑

　　但救我们免于凶恶。阿门！

圣母经(Hail Mary)：

－文言文：

　　申尔福，福玛利亚， 满被圣宠者，

　　主与尔偕焉， 女中尔为赞美，

　　尔胎子耶稣， 并为赞美。

　　天主圣母玛利亚， 为我等罪人，

　　今祈天主， 及我等死候。

　　亚孟。

－白话文：

　　万福玛利亚，你充满圣宠！

　　主与你同在。你在妇女中受赞颂，

　　你的亲子耶稣同受赞颂。

　　天主圣母玛利亚，

　　求你现在和我们临终时，为我们罪人祈求天主。

　　阿们

Baidu has this all.

I'd say there isn't much difference other than the inherent fashion of the classical/modern Chinese languages.