左传 ( 王力 古代汉语 Wang Li Classical Chinese )

[chrix]

Here's thread for discussing anything related to 左传 chapter in the Classical Chinese textbook by 王力.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about 王力's 《古代汉语》:

由漢語學家王力所著的《古代漢語》是中國語言文學專業的一門同名基礎課的教材。這門課一是門「工具課」，致力於提高讀者閱讀中國古代漢語文獻的能力。1959年，北京大學中文系在王力的主持下進行了古代漢語課程的改革，把古漢語的文選、常用詞和理論結合起來教。《古代漢語》一書即由北大的內部講義修改、補充而成。全書共四册，最早於1964年由中華書局出全，字數126萬多。1987年獲全國高等學校優秀教材特等奬。截至2006年，已重印40多次，總印數近190萬部。

As the textbook is written in Mandarin, and presupposes some high school Classical Chinese, it might present quite a challenge to the Western learner. All the more reason to have a thread on this book!

The first book (out of four) starts off with 左傳, so that's what we'll be doing for the time being...

OK, the 左傳 text can be found online here. A partial translation can be found here.

You can download a copy of the Wang Li classical Chinese book here.

http://rapidshare.com/files/304425885/WangLi_ClassicalChinese_Book1.pdf

Wang Li, Classical Chinese, Volume 1

Section on 左传 from the study guide for the Wang Li classical Chinese book.

http://rapidshare.com/files/305350609/WangLi_StudyGuide_Sample.pdf

Wang Li Study Guide Sample pages

http://www.amazon.cn/mn/detailApp?ref=DT_SMO&uid=479-0481231-1338142&prodid=bkbk977418

古代汉语同步辅导与练习(上册)

[see more at the 王力 general discussion thread.]

Edited November 12, 2009 at 04:19 AM by gato

[chrix]

1. as I've mentioned in the Pulleyblank thread, the oldest works of Classical Chinese such as 左傳 have abundant inversions. For instance, in "隱公元年": 姜氏何厭之有? "The Lady Jiang is not to be satisfied" I think literally it means "What pleasure will the Lady Jiang have", with 何厭 fronted and 之 referring back to it, but also inversed before the verb. Any objections?

2. The second text is the origin of the chengyu 風馬牛不相及. According to 王力, 風 here means "put out to pasture" and is used interchangeably with 放.

3. In the second text, 管仲 seems to refer to himself as 寡人, even though he is not the ruler. If he was referring to his ruler, he should have used 寡君 instead. 寡人 is usually reserved for rulers, so is it just plain arrogance?

Edited November 9, 2009 at 02:56 PM by chrix

[chrix]

OK, so here's my notes and questions about the third text, 宮之奇諫假道 (僖公五年)

4. what was back then a 諺語, is now two 成語: 輔車相依, 脣亡齒寒 (輔 and 車 refer to cheekbones and alveolar bone (gumbone? not sure, the Chinese is 牙床骨 )

EDIT: The Modern Mandarin translation has an interpretation different from Wang Li: ‘大车的板和车子互相依存，嘴唇缺了，牙齿便受冷寒’

5. I think I got the stuff with the family relationships right now. So in the ancestral temple (宗廟) you have 昭 and 穆 taking turns, meaning that the second generation would be 昭 and the third 穆. So 大(太)伯虞仲 was the son of 大(太)王 (太公),the first ruler of the Zhou Dynasty (back then it was still under the Shang), and didn't succeed him due to his disobedience. Now 虢仲, who is explained in the annotations as the ancestor of the House of Guo, was the grandchild of 王季 , who seems to be the successor of 太王. Now 虢仲 excelled in the service to 文王, the successor to 王季 and whose son, 武王, overthrew the Shang. So being descended from the son of the second ruler who provided an important service to the third ruler counts more than being descended from the son of the first ruler, who only made duke? Close call, if you ask me.. Now the annotations make clear that the ruling family of 晉 is related to both Yu and Guo as well, but they don't tell us how, only that the Duke of Jin killed off another family related to them, the 桓莊 family. Just tell me if you think if I got it right, or where there are still problems...

6. p. 17, last sentence: 親以寵偪, 猶尚害之, 況以國乎? I have trouble understanding this. Anyone up for a literal translation

EDIT: The MM translation clears the matter up: "亲近的人由于受宠就威胁公室，尚且被无辜杀害，何况对一个国家呢？” "(if) relatives threaten (the position of the ducal house) because of their having received favours, and the (house) then even harms them (kills them off), then what about a country?". Wang Li's annotation seems to suggest that the latter part might mean something along the lines of "then what about people who threaten (the position of the ducal house) because of their country"

7. about the paragraph on p. 18: basically 宮之奇's point is that you can't rely on the gods, just on your virtue. But does "若晉取虞,而明德以薦馨,神其吐之乎" imply that the minister thinks that Jin has virtue too? That would surprise me, since they're being the aggressor. I mean the earlier part of the paragraph is largely along the lines of "the gods help anyone who offers them sacrifices", but then what is the "而明德以薦馨" part doing there...

EDIT: The MM translation reads "如果晋国占取了虞国，发扬美德作为芳香的祭品奉献于神明，神明难道会吐出来吗？” I still see a contradiction here to the earlier part....

8. towards the end Wang Li skips two parts. Anyone up to trying the skipped parts, or we just move on to the next text. I mean Yu and Guo have been defeated, and that's probably enough

9. Interesting side note: this particular Prince Xian of Jin is the father of 重耳, wo fled Jin before triumphantly conquering it later and becoming Duke Wen of Jin. Lot of stories about this guy....

Edited November 12, 2009 at 11:49 PM by chrix

[chrix]

next story, pp. 20-23, 燭之武退秦 僖公三十年. I think the point and reasoning of the story is quite clear, just some minor issues I have.

10. a little bit of background, so this is Chong'er, the son of Duke Xian of Jin, after he came back from exile with a little help from his friend, the Duke of Qin. He wants to take revenge on Zheng, where they didn't treat him kindly when he was in exile, and conquer it.

11. first sentence "且貳於楚": from the first text in the book we know that 貳 means "to be subservient/paying allegiance to two masters/rulers". Now who is subservient to Chu, is this Zheng we're talking about, thus causing further offence to Jin and Qin?

EDIT: The MM translation has "而且心向着楚国". So despite what Wang Li says, the usage of 貳 seems to be different in this text, more along the lines of "Zheng had designs towards Chu"? It's still a bit puzzling to me...

12. third sentence on p.21: "若亡鄭而有益於君, 敢以煩執事". I understand the context and everything, but I'm puzzled about the exact meaning. "If eliminating Zheng benefits you, sire, I'd like to trouble you" ? Trouble him with what?

EDIT: MM translation: "如果灭亡郑国而对君王有好处，那是值得劳动君王左右随从的". "If eliminating Zheng benefits you, it is worthwhile troubling your subordinates" Wang Li seems to think that 執事 refers to the Duke of Qin himself, but it boils down to the same thing.

13. I find it interesting that 行李 means "diplomatic delegation" Unfortunately I'm struggling with the rest of the sentence here as well: "若舍鄭以為東道主, 行李之往來, 共其乏困, 君亦無所害." "If you don't eliminate Zheng and let it continue to be master of the East, the going back and forth of delegations, providing them with insufficient provisions, you will also don't have anything to harm." Somehow I don't know how to piece the phrases to together to form a meaningful sentence

EDIT: MM translation: "如果赦免郑国，让他做东路上的主人，使者的往来，供应他所缺少的一切东西，对君王也没有害处。" In hindsight, as Zheng was never a big country, 東道主 should be "host of the East", not "master". So it should read "If you give up on Zheng and let it be (your) host in the East, as far as the travel of delegation is concerned, for instance providing them with provisions they may lack, it won't be your harm."

14. in the last paragraph: "因人之力而敝之,不仁; 失其所與, 不知; 以亂易整, 不武". A nice tripartite sentence, now the last two parts are clear, some trouble with the first: "to harm it (what is 之 referring to?) relying on other people's strength, is not virtuous."

EDIT: MM translation: "靠了别人的力量，反而损害他，这是不讲仁德；失掉了同盟国家，这是不明智；用动乱代替整齐，这是不勇敢" "to first rely on other people's strength, but then to inflict harm on them, is not virtuous"

Edited November 14, 2009 at 01:22 PM by chrix

[chrix]

I've numbered all my points 1-14, feel free to add your own points starting with 15-...

[Daan]

Looks like I have some catching up to do! I've only just finished the first text, give or take a few sentences. Quite busy these days, have some exams coming up as well, but will see how far I can get with the 左轉 excerpts tomorrow, when I promised myself some quality time with my copy of 古代漢語

[chrix]

that's fine, Daan. I took way too much out of my day yesterday for this, so it'll be nice for me to wait for you to catch up 慢慢來不必急

[gato]

I'll need to catch up on the reading, too.

[Daan]

Only managed to get halfway the third text today. Heard yesterday I could sit the TOP (Taiwanese HSK) for free next Tuesday, so have been trying to prepare a bit in the meantime as it's always nice to get a high score. Anyway, here are some comments.

1. as I've mentioned in the Pulleyblank thread, the oldest works of Classical Chinese such as 左傳 have abundant inversions. For instance, in "隱公元年": 姜氏何厭之有? "The Lady Jiang is not to be satisfied" I think literally it means "What pleasure will the Lady Jiang have", with 何厭 fronted and 之 referring back to it, but also inversed before the verb. Any objections?

I'm not sure if this is inversion. That might be judging the language of the 左轉 by the standards of later Classical prose. I think the syntactic differences between the 左轉 and later texts are quite striking, especially if you also compare the 左轉's syntax to Zhou dynasty bronzes, for example. But this is just a gut feeling, and I hope to do some research next year to check this idea. But of course, the meaning is obvious: as you said, why does this please Lady Jiang?

2. The second text is the origin of the chengyu 風馬牛不相及. According to 王力, 風 here means "put out to pasture" and is used interchangeably with 放.

Lovely chengyu, reminds me of 鄰國相望，雞犬之聲相聞 from the 道德經 for some reason.

3. In the second text, 管仲 seems to refer to himself as 寡人, even though he is not the ruler. If he was referring to his ruler, he should have used 寡君 instead. 寡人 is usually reserved for rulers, so is it just plain arrogance?

王力's interpretation is indeed that 寡人 refers to 管仲, but my annotated 三民 edition says it refers to his ruler instead, with 管仲 using it to relay his orders. Interesting contrast with the envoy of the king of Chu in the next sentence, though, since he uses 寡君. I tried glancing over the Chinese Text Project to see if I could find more examples of ministers rather than rulers using 寡人, but the lack of quotation marks there makes it quite a chore to quickly figure out who is the speaker in all those texts.

Will hopefully be back tomorrow with more!

[chrix]

I'm not sure if this is inversion. That might be judging the language of the 左轉 by the standards of later Classical prose.

What I mean is that the normal order for declarative clauses with nonpronominal objects is SVO. We can discuss this issue further at the Pulleyblank thread

NOTE: I have moved the 寡人 discussion to a different thread

Edited November 12, 2009 at 10:56 PM by chrix

[chrix]

Let's continue, with the next text, p.23-5: 蹇叔哭師 僖公三十二年

15. This is part of a long section in Zuozhuan referring to the Battle of Xiao (郩之戰). It was part of struggle for hegemony between Qin and Jin, two of the major powers of this period (others would include Wei, Chu, Qi). To have an understanding of the geography, have a look at this nice map. There are three battles indicated on this map, but our Battle of Xiao unfortunately is not among them. But it seems to be pretty much between Jin and Zheng, so it should be near the battle field indicated with the number 2. Although it also says in the text that King Wen of Zhou used to stay there to escape "rain and wind", Wen's capital was further to the West. Just important to note: Qin in the West, Jin in the middle (and the Zhou royal lands just to the south of Jin), and Zheng to the east of Jin. Qin has to pass through Jin to conquer Zheng.

16. In the last text we had the Duke Wen of Jin aka Chong'er, who gained his throne with the help of the Duke of Qin (who then married off five of his daughters to him, one of them being 文嬴). As mentioned before, he wanted to strike Zheng, together with Qin, but Qin backed out at the last minute as they realised that it would undermine their position, and Qin even sent ministers such as 杞子 to assist Zheng in their defences. So, Duke Wen relented. Now in this text, he has passed away, and the people of Jin are cautioned by the seer to be on the guard against Qin's desires towards Zheng, which by this time has become the main element in the struggle for hegemony between Qin and Jin. At the same time, with Qin's 杞子 having attained a key position in defending Zheng, the Duke of Qin senses an opportunity and decides to send an army to sneak into Zheng against the advice of 蹇叔. HERE ENDETH THE LESSON. Why, Wang Li, do you keep us hanging there, we wanna know how it ends? Before continuing with the story, I'll note some vocabulary stuff (the grammar was quite easy in this text)

17. 捷: I was surprised to see that this means "victory", I only knew this character in the sense of "swift, quick". Do you think there's a semantic relation somewhere, or it's just the rebus principle at work?

18. 訪: if you ever wondered why "to visit" has the 言 radical, here's the answer: its original meaning was "to consult" (諮詢)

19. "爾何知! 中壽,爾墓之木拱矣!" This is an instance of a curse in Zuozhuan, though without any swear words , though I find it quite interesting. So literally it means "What do you know! (If you died at) 67, the trees on your grave would be so thick that one could just wrap one's arms around them!"??? OK, using 爾 is probably impolite, and wishing him death at 67 (which might be about his age) is also not very nice, but why is it bad if trees grow thick around your grave ?

20. Well, so what happens next? It's in the next section, 僖公三十三年. (Here for a Mandarin translation and further background info, this Wikipedia article on the Battle of Xiao is also nice). Well, how do you sneak undetected into Zheng, if you have to pass through Jin and also the royal capital? It's a tall order, and naturally, the Qin army is spotted just outside of the Zhou capital by a merchant named 弦高 from Zheng who immediately sees the danger for his home country and decides to take action. He sends them cow hides and victuals and says this is all on behalf on the Duke of Zheng, thereby stalling the army's advance and at the same time dispatching messengers to the court of Zheng. The Duke then sends spies to report on the Qin army and discovers that they 則束載，厲兵，秣馬矣, which is the origin of the chengyu 厲兵秣馬. Due to the actions of the Zheng merchant, 孟明 the Qin general was led to believe that Zheng was already well prepared and decides that the risk is too high and calls it quits, 杞子 also flees Zheng for Qi. Out of frustration they decide to conquer the ministate Hua 滑 (which is not indicated on the map), and begin their homeward journey.

21. Meanwhile, in Jin, where people also couldn't help noticing an army passing through, there's a discussion between hawks saying one should use the chance to crush the dispirited Qin army and doves saying that it would mean disrespect if they attacked now given the fact that Qin paid its respects for the deceased Duke. The hawks, however, carry the day as they convincingly argue that by trying to attack Zheng whose ruling family is related to that of Jin, they already violated the rites and are therefore not worthy of such consideration. So, just as 蹇叔 feared, they lay ambush on the Qin army at Mt. Xiao, and crush them, with the help of a people called 姜戎. 孟明 and what survives of his host become prisoners of the Jin. While the Jin court is pondering what to do with the captives, 文嬴, one of the wives of the late Duke of Jin, and a native of Qin herself, convinces his successor to set the generals free (I'm not sure if this involved the soldiers as well), since they would face death at home anyways. So the Duke agrees. The next day, his advisers find out about this and are outraged, urging the Duke to change his mind, so he sends out a minister after the generals. They, however, have already boarded a ferry on the Yellow River, and don't fall for the Jin minister's ploy (namely that the Duke wants to send them a horse to take home). Now how did they communicate? Shouting from the water to the minister and his men standing on the shore of the Huanghe? 孟明 thanks the Duke of Jin for his kindness, and swears it will be repaid in three years' time: "君之惠，不以纍臣釁鼓，使歸就戮于秦，寡君之以為戮，死且不朽，若從君惠而免之，三年將拜君賜" I'm not sure what he means by that, I know that three years is the prescribed mourning period, but is this is a threat or a genuine expression of gratitude? Finally, when they arrive back in Qin, they are naturally not put to death but received by a teary eyed Duke of Qin bitterly regretting not listening to the advice of 蹇叔. Let his moving words speak for themselves: "孤違蹇叔，以辱二三子，孤之罪也，不替孟明，孤之過也，大夫何罪，且吾不以一眚掩大德." (孤 is another pronoun for rulers referring to themselves).

22. As we all know, Qin lost the battle, but won the war. This defeat led Qin to focus on the "barbarian" West first, establishing its power base there that then should form the foundation for its eventual conquest of China 400 years later; while Jin, still weakened from the expenses of war, experienced a period of disunity amongst its nobility and court, which coupled with continuous external pressure (also from Chu, which was then allied with Qin), leads to an erosion of the power of the court, sowing the seeds for the eventual tripartition of Jin 200 years later.

Edited January 11, 2010 at 07:23 PM by chrix

[chrix]

Great news, I found a Modern Mandarin translation of Zuozhuan, a nice 432 page pdf file Over on the Chinese history forum they're saying that the full Legge translation should be available through www.archive.org, but they don't give any details....

[Daan]

That's an excellent find, chrix, thanks for sharing. I have one here as well, in print, with the relevant entries of the Spring and Autumn Annals, the text from the 左傳, annotations, a translation into Mandarin and an explanation of the chapter. It's almost 2000 pages worth of fun.

5. I think I got the stuff with the family relationships right now. So in the ancestral temple (宗廟) you have 昭 and 穆 taking turns, meaning that the second generation would be 昭 and the third 穆. So 大(太)伯虞仲 was the son of 大(太)王 (太公),the first ruler of the Zhou Dynasty (back then it was still under the Shang), and didn't succeed him due to his disobedience. Now 虢仲, who is explained in the annotations as the ancestor of the House of Guo, was the grandchild of 王季 , who seems to be the successor of 太王. Now 虢仲 excelled in the service to 文王, the successor to 王季 and whose son, 武王, overthrew the Shang. So being descended from the son of the second ruler who provided an important service to the third ruler counts more than being descended from the son of the first ruler, who only made duke? Close call, if you ask me.. Now the annotations make clear that the ruling family of 晉 is related to both Yu and Guo as well, but they don't tell us how, only that the Duke of Jin killed off another family related to them, the 桓莊 family. Just tell me if you think if I got it right, or where there are still problems...

Complicated, but I think your summary looks good. Although I think 桓莊 refers to two families rather than one (the 桓 and the 莊 families).

7. about the paragraph on p. 18: basically 宮之奇's point is that you can't rely on the gods, just on your virtue. But does "若晉取虞,而明德以薦馨,神其吐之乎" imply that the minister thinks that Jin has virtue too? That would surprise me, since they're being the aggressor. I mean the earlier part of the paragraph is largely along the lines of "the gods help anyone who offers them sacrifices", but then what is the "而明德以薦馨" part doing there...

EDIT: The MM translation reads "如果晋国占取了虞国，发扬美德作为芳香的祭品奉献于神明，神明难道会吐出来吗？” I still see a contradiction here to the earlier part....

I read his line of argument as follows:

- the Duke indicates the gods will protect him because of his sacrifices, and therefore, he has no need to worry about 晉.

- 宮之奇 replies the gods do not favour men because of their sacrifices, but only based on their virtue. He supports this with three quotations from the Book of Zhou.

- 宮之奇 then concludes the gods decide whether to accept sacrifices based on virtue, not personal relationships.

- he then points out that if 晉 takes 虞 and offers virtuously, the gods will not necessarily protect the Duke, since the gods would also accept those offers from 晉 as long as they reflected 德.

You would be right to say it's difficult to see 晉 as having 德, since they're the aggressors in this context, but in this martial culture that might not have been a criterium for 德 yet. Perhaps the meaning of 德 you are thinking of when you say that aggressors cannot have virtue evolved only later. I agree, though, that it seems a bit strange.

8. towards the end Wang Li skips two parts. Anyone up to trying the skipped parts, or we just move on to the next text. I mean Yu and Guo have been defeated, and that's probably enough

I think there's enough Classical Chinese in the series to keep us busy for a few years I just checked my Sanmin edition and glanced over those parts. The first skipped part is merely the Duke of Jin asking his diviners when to attack; the other part is an explanation of a related quotation from the 書.

Fourth text tomorrow, hopefully!

[gato]

Wikipedia has a pretty good page on the Spring Autumn era, which is recounted in 左传. It provides a helpful background for reading these pieces.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E6%98%A5%E7%A7%8B%E6%97%B6%E6%9C%9F

春秋时期

[chrix]

That's an excellent find, chrix, thanks for sharing. I have one here as well, in print, with the relevant entries of the Spring and Autumn Annals, the text from the 左傳, annotations, a translation into Mandarin and an explanation of the chapter. It's almost 2000 pages worth of fun.

Ha, is that your 三民 edition, Daan, or do you have several? Would you mind posting the details of the books you have, I think I need to get these ...

Absolutely, I've been relying on wikipedia a lot, gato, though oftentimes I find the articles by the Japanese wikipedia more in-depth. The Japanese wikipedia right now has more than double as many pages as the Chinese one, so if you read Japanese, it is also a good resource for reading up on all that Shunjū-jidai stuff (for instance, 華元 only has an article in the Japanese wikipedia)

[Daan]

That's indeed my 三民 edition, yes. Hang on, let me use the other thread to list the books I have

[Daan]

11. first sentence "且貳於楚".

Apparently the problem here is that Zheng is being friendly to Chu rather than Jin. Duke Wen of Zheng had sent some troops to Chu to help them beat Jin, in year 27 of Duke Xi. 貳 is glossed as 有貳心; 從屬二主 in 三民.

12. third sentence on p.21: "若亡鄭而有益於君, 敢以煩執事". (...) Wang Li seems to think that 執事 refers to the Duke of Qin himself, but it boils down to the same thing.

三民 says this would usually be used for subordinates, but is here used for the Duke of Qin himself out of politeness.

13. I find it interesting that 行李 means "diplomatic delegation"

Haha, I thought that was pretty funny too. 三民 has the brilliant remark:

行李，古代專指外交使臣，亦作行理。諸侯囯又行人，掌管外交。與今行李作行裝義有別。

Unfortunately I'm struggling with the rest of the sentence here as well: "若舍鄭以為東道主, 行李之往來, 共其乏困, 君亦無所害." (...) Somehow I don't know how to piece the phrases to together to form a meaningful sentence (...)

Had the same problem with this sentence, but the translation cleared it up!

Another text finished

[Kobo-Daishi]

Dear all,

Absolutely, I've been relying on wikipedia a lot, gato, though oftentimes I find the articles by the Japanese wikipedia more in-depth. The Japanese wikipedia right now has more than double as many pages as the Chinese one, so if you read Japanese, it is also a good resource for reading up on all that Shunjū-jidai stuff (for instance, 華元 only has an article in the Japanese wikipedia)

Or you could try one of the 3 mainland Chinese online encylopedias.

Hudong Baike Touted as the largest online Chinese encyclopedia with more than 3.9 million entries.

Baidu Baike Has over 1.8 million entries.

Keyin Baike No longer updated but should still be okay for articles on traditional Chinese culture.

The Chinese version of Wikipedia is third behind Hudong and Baidu for number of entries.

If you're looking for a Chinese book title, movie, historical or pop personality there's no beating them.

左传 at Hudong

左传 at Baidu

左传 at Keyin

Just don't go looking for "tankman".

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

[Daan]

Now in this text, he has passed away, and the people of Qin are cautioned by the seer to be on the guard against Qin's desires towards Zheng, which by this time has become the main element in the struggle for hegemony between Qin and Jin.

Yes, but the first Qin should read Jin, right?

17. 捷: I was surprised to see that this means "victory", I only knew this character in the sense of "swift, quick". Do you think there's a semantic relation somewhere, or it's just the rebus principle at work?

It was new to me too. In fact, I almost missed this! As far as I can ascertain right now, 捷 in the sense of 'victory' was used predominantly in the Shijing and the Zuozhuan. From Xunzi it seems to take on (almost exclusively) the sense of 'swift, quick' instead. This meaning does not occur often in earlier texts, although there is 夏，四月，己丑，鄭伯捷卒 (Zuozhuan). Interestingly, there is the following, from Zuozhuan, 成公五年:

梁山崩，晉侯以傳召伯宗伯，宗辟重，曰，辟傳，重人曰，待我，不如捷之速也，問其所

which is annotated in my 三民 edition as 捷: 走捷徑, 動詞, a meaning not given in my dictionaries. From 襄公十八年 we can also see 捷 in action in a guideline on behaviour:

苟捷有功

and here both interpretations seem possible. Perhaps 捷 conveys a sense of rapid victory?

19. "爾和知! 中壽,爾墓之木拱矣!" This is an instance of a curse in Zuozhuan, though without any swear words , though I find it quite interesting. So literally it means "What do you know! (If you died at) 67, the trees on your grave would be so thick that one could just wrap one's arms around them!"??? OK, using 爾 is probably impolite, and wishing him death at 67 (which might be about his age) is also not very nice, but why is it bad if trees grow thick around your grave ?

I suppose the idea is "I wish you'd already died and trees had grown thick around your grave", as in, I wish you'd died a long time ago rather than living to bother me now?

I don't have time today to read the part Wang Li (quite a daredevil, I agree) so happily skips, since that research on 捷 already used up most of the time I had left to post here. But thanks for the summary! Interesting, I'll have to read the original when I get back from Beijing

[chrix]

16. Yes, but the first Qin should read Jin, right?

oops, yes, I've corrected that

17. 捷:

Looked it up in the Shuowen jiezi, and it seems to mean "hunt and catch". So accordingly it would mean for an army to attain victory.

捷 is also mentioned as definition for 翜 (shà). From the MOE dictionary:

飛行快速。說文解字：「翜，捷也，飛之疾也。」

So basically this character is used in two quite different meanings in Shuowen Jiezi, and Xu Shen doesn't make this explicit unfortunately.