File order in windows etc

[fanglu]

This is something that has been bothering me for a while.

How does windows (or the software on my ipod or any other software) order chinese files when sort by name is selected? It seems to have some kind of order, because when I set windows to reverse name sort it reverses the order its in when its set on name sort, I just have no idea what it is. It would be helpful for finding files if I knew how they were ordered so I wasn't just reading from top to bottom every time I want to find something. Or even better if there was some way of setting it to order alphabetically by first character, then second, like a dictionary.

[adrianlondon]

I created three files in a directory on my laptop running Windows XP.

It appeared to sort the files alphabetically by pinyin.

[fanglu]

OK well mine definitely does not - see attached screenshot.

Are you using a chinese or english version of windows?

[tooironic]

My impression was that they always sort alphabetically by pinyin (not sure what they do with characters with more than one pinyin!). @fanglu Shouldn't the sorting arrow be pointing up to have Windows sort A-Z? Maybe try that.

[fanglu]

Shouldn't the sorting arrow be pointing up to have Windows sort A-Z? Maybe try that.

That just reverses the order shown in my screen shot.

[Hofmann]

They are sorted by Unicode.

[adrianlondon]

I redid my test with more files and it sorts the same way as yours, fanglu. Rubbish. Windows XP English edition.

[roddy]

It sorts them in order of Unicode:

阿拉伯语 38463; 25289; 20271; 35821;

英语 33521; 35821;

美国语 32654; 22269; 35821;

泰语 27888; 35821;

法语 27861; 35821;

中文 20013; 25991;

Not aware of any way to fix it. My Windows Mobile phone does the same with contact names I think.

Edit: Completely missed Hoffman's post, hence repetition.

[adrianlondon]

Well, I've changed mine so it sorts by pronunciation (pinyin I assume). There's also an option to sort by stroke order.

However ... to do this affects other things, such as date/time/currency displays.

1. In control panel go to Regional and Language Options.

2. In the first tab change "standards and formats" to "Chinese PRC".

3. Customise and pick the sorting you prefer.

4. Delete the extra keyboard it then creates for input (second tab, details).

5. Log off and back on again.

It could be worth totally amending the locale "Chinese PRC" to work how you want, i.e. put the date/time/currency etc stuff back to the usual but leave the sorting.

[fanglu]

Thanks adrianlondon. What that proves is that windows is capable of doing what I want, microsoft has just decided that anyone who is not chinese could not possibly want their chinese files sorted properly.

I guess I could just set my regional settings to China and change the currency settings etc back, but you can't change long dates back - if you try you get something like 星期六 14 十一月 2009. Also the calendar and probably other bits and pieces stay in chinese, which isn't what I want.

Actually, browsing around the internet it seems the user locale is used by programs to set up defaults for lots of things, so I don't really want to go changing it to chinese and having random websites start giving me their chinese versions by default. I get annoyed enough by programs installing chinese versions of themselves because I have the system locale set as Chinese.

The bottom line is I don't see why I should have to just to get sorts working properly. Windows clearly has the capacity to sort a lot of different types of character sets, but just disables sorting the ones it assumes you don't use and sorts by unicode.

[adrianlondon]

Here's something fun for you to try. Leave the regional settings as your default (eg English UK).

Edit the registry key (xxxxxx is your user) :

[HKEY_USERSS-xxxxxxxxxxxxControl PanelInternational]

Set "Locale" to "00000804". Don't forget to make a note of what it currently is ;)

[fanglu]

Didn't seem to do anything. What should happen?

[adrianlondon]

It changed the sort order of my Chinese file names from useless (i.e. Unicode) into pinyin. You may need to log out/in first, and make sure you're editing the right user-id.

[fanglu]

Ah, that was the problem, I hadn't logged out.

Excellent. Thanks for that.

Next problem, how to get my ipod to do the same. Changing the windows sort order doesn't seem to change the sort order in itunes. Hmm...

[adrianlondon]

It's not perfect. For example, when I lock my system the unlock message is in English but underneath where it should say "please swipe your finger"* it says it in Mandarin instead. Kind of cool, I suppose.

* Thinkpad laptop with fingerprint reader

[fanglu]

OK I got my ipod to do what I wanted. Adrianlondon's solution didn't change the sort order in itunes (and hence on the ipod) so I did this:

1. Close Itunes

2. Set user locale to Chinese (Simplified, PRC) in control panel>Regional and Language Options>Formats>Current format and close

3. Open Itunes and sort relevant playlist by name. Songs are now sorted by pronunciation.

4. Right click on the name of the playlist and select 'Copy to play order'

5. Sort playlist by number (the left-most column). The order should be unchanged.

6. Close Itunes.

7. Set user locale back to English (Australia) or whatever in control panel>Regional and Language Options>Formats>Current format and close

8. Open Itunes. Alphabetical sorting remains.

9. Sync Ipod. Ipod is now properly sorted.

The only problem is that every time you add a new song it just gets put at the bottom of the playlist. If you want it in its proper place you need to repeat the process.

Also every time you sync the ipod you need to ensure the playlist is sorted by number (the left-most column).

[bryce1]

Hello/大家好，

I have many Chinese computer files and am wondering how computers sort Chinese character file names. They don't seem to be sorted by pinyin and if I remember correctly, I don't believe they follow the traditional stroke-order order either

Would anybody know of how they are sorted? Is there a way to change it to pinyin so as to be able to find one's files easier? (or does anybody have any tips for this?)

Thanks!

[jbradfor]

I guess I always assumed it was unicode order..... but never bothered to confirm.

[來撒母耳]

Good question I had never thought about before, did a quick search and came up with this: Forum post

now my question is what is the sort order for my Ubuntu, and can I change it to number of strokes?

[jbradfor]

Wonder what it does for characters with more than one pronunciation? Anyone care to see where it sorts 會計, for example?